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Old 07-06-2019, 09:18 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,064 posts, read 940,916 times
Reputation: 714

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
If that were actually the first, yes, it would bear. It was not, and that is why I called attention to the shortcomings of the article. Look into the expulsion of Jews from Rome by Claudius about the middle of the first century.
As I said, "the redating of the letters of Ignatius DOES move the date of the first recorded non-Biblical mention of the separation between Christianity and Judaism".
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,266 posts, read 7,654,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
As I said, "the redating of the letters of Ignatius DOES move the date of the first recorded non-Biblical mention of the separation between Christianity and Judaism".
And the point is that there was already a separation, at least in the minds of a substantial part of Judaism, though Roman authorities didn't exempt Christians from the special tax on Jews until the 90's.
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:26 PM
 
Location: US
27,970 posts, read 15,053,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
And the point is that there was already a separation, at least in the minds of a substantial part of Judaism, though Roman authorities didn't exempt Christians from the special tax on Jews until the 90's.
And how do you know that there was already a separation in the minds of a substantial part of Judaism?...
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: US
27,970 posts, read 15,053,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
While Ignatius of Antioch may have died in 117 AD (or 107), the letters attributed to him are probably not genuine. For various reason I date them to around 140-160 AD.



You have a typographical error, Justin Martyr did not die when he was 6. He died between 163–167 AD.
https://christinprophecy.org/articles/anti-semitism/
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,266 posts, read 7,654,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
And how do you know that there was already a separation in the minds of a substantial part of Judaism?...
You missed the reference to Acts and the expulsion from Rome for disturbances over "Crestus?" The fact that the council at Jerusalem decided it was not necessary to be a Jew to be a Christian (over the objections of a substantial and continuing faction)?
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:35 PM
 
5,961 posts, read 1,702,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I found this article interesting:

Snippet:

Messianic Jews came under attack from both Jews and Christians. Although the Jews originally viewed them as a sect of Judaism, they were rejected by the Jewish establishment after the Bar Kochba revolt against the Romans (132-135 AD). When that revolt began, the Messianic Jews supported it, but when Rabbi Akiva declared Bar Kochba to be the Messiah, the Messianic Jews withdrew from the struggle. The result was that after the revolt was crushed, the surviving Jews branded the Messianics as deserters and traitors, and they were thereafter treated as outcasts.2


At the beginning of the Refor https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-b...essianic-jews/
Yes. Those professing Christ have done some horrible things in his name.

Is there a point?
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Old 07-06-2019, 06:16 PM
 
5,936 posts, read 2,289,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Yes. Those professing Christ have done some horrible things in his name.

Is there a point?
Is this another topic which should be forgotten and never discussed? My grandfather escaped Christians in Eastern Europe who were killing Jews as scapegoats in 1905. Both Canada and the USA refused entry of German Jews refugees from Nazi Germany because the were dirty Jews and one was too many.

Do you know the complete history of Christians against Jews? Do you not wish to know why these marchers last year shouted " Jews will not replace us" or is the only topic you are interested in being discussed is how good and correct Christainity is or how wrong non Christians are. This forum is not the Christian forum so no used discussing what a certain verse means on this forum as that belongs on the Christianity one.

So what is your point in you putting down threads that you do not wish to discuss?
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Old 07-06-2019, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,266 posts, read 7,654,495 times
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There is a long and vicious history of anti-semitism in institutional Christianity that is shameful. More recently there is misplaced support for policies and practices of modern Israel, also (but not nearly as) shameful.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:31 AM
 
686 posts, read 151,552 times
Reputation: 2380
The Crusades were a rife time for Christian-on-Jew violence.

Of course, those who have never actually studied the Crusades to any degree have this vague idea that they took place solely in the Holy Land and were entirely affairs pitting Christians against Muslims. Which is, of course, wrong.

Take, for example, the First Crusade. This actually consisted of different groups following different paths to the Levant. While Urban II had intended for semi-organized military groupings led by nobles/commanders, there arose a fairly spontaneous army of peasants and minor nobles whipped into a religious fervor by preachers. This unorganized collection had to walk to the Holy Land and had to live almost entirely off the land (ie: they had to steal their provisions en route). It took many months to complete the journey - for those that survived it - and having had their militant piety stoked, they became impatient for infidels to kill. Obviously, this bode very ill for those Jews who happened to be in their path. The most notable and large-scale example of these killings are known as the Rhineland Massacres. Between 600 and 1000 Jews are believed to have been killed in Mainz alone. Later Crusades are also associated with programs and other anti-Jewish acts (the expulsion of the Jews from England, for example).

Then, of course, there were the Jews killed in the Holy Land itself. When Jerusalem was taken after siege in 1099, there was again a mass slaughter of Jews as well as Muslims. And when Haifa was taken in 1100, aside from a small Muslim garrison the town was almost entirely Jewish. The townspeople were given the opportunity for surrender and conversion to Christianity. They choose to fight. When the defenses broke, those unable to flee were put to the sword, Jew and Muslim alike. Those whose understanding of Jewish-Islamic relations is limited to reading modern headlines are often astonished to find that both faiths had lived side by side (albeit under Islamic rule that was hardly equanimous) and fought together as well.

As a side note, it should also be mentioned that the Crusades included many campaigns in Europe, against not only Muslims but sects of Christianity not under the Church and pagan peoples as well.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:43 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,996,362 times
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theist stop theist. clearly, as you pointed out, in the crusades. we see that all threw history. like how white theist killed 300,000 thousand of their own children to stop slavery.

what is the worth of those theist lives? sacrificed to stop theist slavery? hmmmmmm?

I know that doesn't support anti-theist thinking, but as a neutral observer thats what I see.
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