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Old 07-08-2019, 09:01 AM
 
39,168 posts, read 10,865,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
So we need a punishment harsher than a long prison sentence with fellow inmates who are known to look harshly upon child molesters, followed by a lifelong requirement to be publicly registered as a sex offender, which essentially renders a person unemployable and in many localities, with no housing options other than living under a bridge? Your stance is that something harsher than that will help?

As for criticizing the organization, this is the religion forum, not the crime forum, so it is reasonable to discuss the impacts of religion on the crime.

Also, if the structure of the organization creates a haven or similar safe space for people to commit such crimes, isn't is preferable to remove the safety and prevent the crime, rather than wait for the crime to occur then punish harshly? I think most victims, if given the choice, would support not being a victim over seeing a harsh punishment enforced.

Finally, a large number of sex crimes remain unreported for many reasons. Look at the RCC for evidence, where hundreds and thousands of crimes are being reported decades after the fact. Maybe we should look for ways to make it safer for victims to report crimes, rather than shaming them for being victims, and allowing a social structure like a church to work on supporting the criminal and implicitly, or in some cases explicitly, blaming the victim.
If I didn't know better, I'd almost see Cardinals as being one of those bearded bonzos who were telling the UK that we would benefit from Shariya Law as we would apply punishments of medieval barbarism to offenders as an effective deterrent.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:53 AM
 
10,649 posts, read 2,720,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
So we need a punishment harsher than a long prison sentence with fellow inmates who are known to look harshly upon child molesters, followed by a lifelong requirement to be publicly registered as a sex offender, which essentially renders a person unemployable and in many localities, with no housing options other than living under a bridge? Your stance is that something harsher than that will help?

As for criticizing the organization, this is the religion forum, not the crime forum, so it is reasonable to discuss the impacts of religion on the crime.

Also, if the structure of the organization creates a haven or similar safe space for people to commit such crimes, isn't is preferable to remove the safety and prevent the crime, rather than wait for the crime to occur then punish harshly? I think most victims, if given the choice, would support not being a victim over seeing a harsh punishment enforced.

Finally, a large number of sex crimes remain unreported for many reasons. Look at the RCC for evidence, where hundreds and thousands of crimes are being reported decades after the fact. Maybe we should look for ways to make it safer for victims to report crimes, rather than shaming them for being victims, and allowing a social structure like a church to work on supporting the criminal and implicitly, or in some cases explicitly, blaming the victim.
'Metoo' is a big part of that problem, they are basically teaching victims that its preferable to 'speak up' ONLY when its popular and/or convenient to do so.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:01 AM
 
10,649 posts, read 2,720,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
All those who support these monsters in the churches, are part of the gang and should be brought under the weight of law.

However, not the ENTIRE Christian organization is evil. There are many good and kind hearted men and women in this organization. Many volunteers, many charity donars, many who care for others and many who are well wishers of others.
the poster 'fishbrains' is right, the church even teaches us that Satan 'disguises' himself as an angel of light...but just because he may do or cause some good, that doesnt mean all the evil he is responsible for, should be excused.


Saying that the church does do some good is the same thing, its justifying the evil and wrong things they are doing too.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:11 AM
 
39,168 posts, read 10,865,034 times
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That's actually a good point; if the churches were assiduous in Cleaning House, that might actually gain them the approval they are losing by trying to cover it up for fear of losing approval.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:33 AM
 
Location: minnesota
6,348 posts, read 2,126,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
'Metoo' is a big part of that problem, they are basically teaching victims that its preferable to 'speak up' ONLY when its popular and/or convenient to do so.
Once someone speaks up other people come forward. If someone wants to deal with it in another way that's their choice too.

Last edited by L8Gr8Apost8; 07-08-2019 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:54 AM
 
5,958 posts, read 2,293,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
'Metoo' is a big part of that problem, they are basically teaching victims that its preferable to 'speak up' ONLY when its popular and/or convenient to do so.
No the lesson women and girls are hearing that until others speak up against a man, just shut up and take it. And that rape case where the judge was concerned with the future of the boy because he went to a good school 9r that swimmer who got like 6 minutes for raping a passed out girl.

Speaking up when to one else has raised their voices is almost a guarantee for a woman to be harassed and threatehed. Isn't Ford still unable to work or be safe at home after coming out against Kavvanah.

The idea that women are not victims and the rapists and child abusers are the real victims needs to stop immediately.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:01 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,004,197 times
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well, thats gets

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Old 07-08-2019, 04:13 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,889 posts, read 3,977,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
The difference is that those offenders outside the Church do not get excused, treated as saints for some exhibition repentance and do not get an organisation covering up for them, and then lecturing usall about how sinful we all are and how we should take the organisation as our moral mentors.

This isn't about whether the religion is true, but about whether such an organisation deserves respect and support.

When the late pastor of my parent`s church caused a major sex scandal which resulted in his resignation, I sat back and laughed, not at the numerous women he victimized, but because my dad seemed to worship this guy to no end.

Rumors circulated (never proven btw) that this pastor and his wife were members of a swingers club. My comment was, and still is, nthat if that is what turns you on and what you are into then ok, that is fine, but do not SIT on a payroll of a major religion that openly condemns Adultery.

As for the need for religion, I have long suggested that what would be healthier would be a philosophy that instills SELF empowerment and personal responsibility in the individual. Christianity does neither, in fact it does the opposite, and the abuses mentioned in this thread are but a small sad result of such.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:24 PM
 
39,168 posts, read 10,865,034 times
Reputation: 5092
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
When the late pastor of my parent`s church caused a major sex scandal which resulted in his resignation, I sat back and laughed, not at the numerous women he victimized, but because my dad seemed to worship this guy to no end.

Rumors circulated (never proven btw) that this pastor and his wife were members of a swingers club. My comment was, and still is, nthat if that is what turns you on and what you are into then ok, that is fine, but do not SIT on a payroll of a major religion that openly condemns Adultery.

As for the need for religion, I have long suggested that what would be healthier would be a philosophy that instills SELF empowerment and personal responsibility in the individual. Christianity does neither, in fact it does the opposite, and the abuses mentioned in this thread are but a small sad result of such.
Wise observations. I always felt little inclination to go along with the gleeful pulling down of the statues of public figures because they were putting out a bit. Assuming there is not a question of coercion involved. For instance monks having it off with bargirls doesn't bother me in the slightest. Those who do it while extolling the virtues of chastity and denouncing the sinfulness of others deserve nothing but having their street -cred stomped into the ground, and no public displays of repentance will be accepted.
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:46 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,853 posts, read 4,979,806 times
Reputation: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
They are Pharisees. Condemned by Jesus.

What's the point of this thread?
You don't know what a Pharisee is.
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