U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-11-2019, 12:20 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 496,317 times
Reputation: 596

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
"More frequently?"

You hear or read about "anti-Catholic sentiment" or "anti-papists" more than you encounter the term antiSemitism or antiSemites?!?

I'm amazed by this. Where do you live I wonder. What papers do you read? What news and entertainment do you follow?

Please do explain how this is so!
No, you asked when the "last time you heard the term Anti-Catholicism" was so I answered with the constructions that I hear more often than the one you proposed.

When people discuss the state of religion in China, I read more about "anti-Christian" than about "anti-Semitic".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-11-2019, 12:23 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 496,317 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Also very interesting and curious to me is how you make no comment about the cause speculated by Wikipedia in the following respect, because this has been my more common experience/perception and what I think has been a problem for Jews going back the many centuries (no different than for Mormons back when they too were "persecuted" for similar reasons if not the exact same ones)...

"Some explanations assign partial blame to the perception of Jewish people as unsociable. Such a perception may have arisen by many Jews having strictly kept to their own communities, with their own practices and laws."

I'm not sure I would use the word "unsociable" per se, but I do think the cliquish inclinations tend to turn outsiders off more than a bit. The nature or reasons for those inclinations also tend to strike people as either "welcoming" or the opposite, and so begins at least part of the problem far as I can tell...
There isn't much to say. The perception is both accurate and inaccurate. It isn't a matter of "cliquish" but about the Jewish notion of community and that certain laws are designed to reduce the risk of assimilation by maintaining a distinct Jewish identity. This dates back to biblical times. People tend to feel excluded when their cultural practices are allowed to diffuse into and mix with another group's so they lash out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2019, 12:25 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 496,317 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
I would like to coin a term for followers of Semitic religions who dismiss non-Semitics as heathens or kafir (infidels).

These "pagans" include ancient Greeks/Romans, modern Hindus, Buddhists, Chinese (followers of Confucius or the Tao), not to mention smaller-by-numbers groups like Japanese (Shinto) and Native Americans.

Ancient Jews started it with the "gentiles" thing, but then it was enthusiastically taken up by Christians and Muslims. Hmm, what do all these religions have in common?
The term "gentiles" is not of Jewish origin. As a word of Latin origin, it came about among non-Jews as a way to distinguish themselves from Jews (compare with "genteel" and "gentle").
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2019, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Long Island
1,720 posts, read 1,387,828 times
Reputation: 1412
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I'm not inclined to "dismiss" any of these terms, but surely we can consider them as compared to antiSemitism. Right? I mean seriously, when is the last time you heard the term antiMormonism or antiProtestantism as compared to antiSemitism? They don't compare, and I'm not sure I have ever seen any Mormon or Protestant argue the likes with those terms like I see commonly done in this forum and in the media -- almost daily -- with accusations of antiSemitism. You?

I think the nature of the accusations are different too. Islamophobia vs antiSemitism, but quite frankly, we would all do better to understand the nature of these issues, differences and sources of conflict, so that we might better get rid of them or at least alleviate them. No matter how similar, different or unique they may be. In any case...

Islamophobia and antiSemitism are both born of ignorance as a rule. True.

Legitimate criticism and/or critical thinking about Islam and/or Judaism is not.

Let us all have the wisdom to know the difference...
Of course we can compare them to antisemitism.

All are ideologies based on hatred of specific religious groups.
All have led to the destruction of places of worship, the murder of innocent people, and discrimination.
I think they compare quite well.

As far as frequency, antisemitism is much more common. It seems to be far more popular and more socially acceptable the the rest (with the possible exception of Islamophobia which has been increasingly popular over the last decade or so).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2019, 02:53 PM
 
810 posts, read 595,127 times
Reputation: 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
The term "gentiles" is not of Jewish origin. As a word of Latin origin, it came about among non-Jews as a way to distinguish themselves from Jews (compare with "genteel" and "gentle").
"goy" then? I took "gentile" from the Bible translation.

Jews have no (slightly or fully pejorative) word for outsiders?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2019, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Long Island
1,720 posts, read 1,387,828 times
Reputation: 1412
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
"goy" then? I took "gentile" from the Bible translation.

Jews have no (slightly or fully pejorative) word for outsiders?
"Goy" means "nation". Colloquially, it means a non-Jew. It is neutral; the non-Jew who spray-painted a swastika in the synagogue and the non-Jew who rescued 1000 Jewish kids from Europe during the Shoah are both equally "goyim".


Sure, it can be used pejoratively, just as American or Christian can be used pejoratively in the right (or wrong?) context.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2019, 06:17 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 496,317 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
"goy" then? I took "gentile" from the Bible translation.

Jews have no (slightly or fully pejorative) word for outsiders?
As JB from NC writes, goy simply means nation (goyim in plural, nations). Biblically, it referred to the Hebrew nation as well as other nations (and "nations" generically). In later uses it has been used more to refer to non-Jews as individuals.

There are other much more pejorative words in the Jewish lexicon. I had a number of students who called me a name (in Farsi or Syrian...I'm not sure) and I still don't know exactly what it means.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2019, 11:19 AM
 
12,724 posts, read 3,228,585 times
Reputation: 1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
No, you asked when the "last time you heard the term Anti-Catholicism" was so I answered with the constructions that I hear more often than the one you proposed.

When people discuss the state of religion in China, I read more about "anti-Christian" than about "anti-Semitic".
Fair enough. I was focused more on my or our experience as Americans. When I am in Thailand, I don't hear or read anything about any of this...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2019, 11:25 AM
 
12,724 posts, read 3,228,585 times
Reputation: 1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
There isn't much to say. The perception is both accurate and inaccurate. It isn't a matter of "cliquish" but about the Jewish notion of community and that certain laws are designed to reduce the risk of assimilation by maintaining a distinct Jewish identity. This dates back to biblical times. People tend to feel excluded when their cultural practices are allowed to diffuse into and mix with another group's so they lash out.
True.

Though it seems there is reluctance to view these dynamics in terms of being cliquish, but I have a hard time understanding why given the rather straight-forward common understanding of what the word means. Again as follows:

cliquish

adjective
(of a group or place) tending to form or hold exclusive groups and so not welcoming to outsiders.

Most people are turned off by this sort of thing, regardless the clique (unless of course you are in the clique).

That anyone "lash out" is also something most people don't approve of as a rule.

So where does this leave us?

I'd like to suggest people do a better job of understanding these dynamics at the most fundamental levels, regardless of ancient history. Or maybe as a result of what we can learn from that history...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2019, 11:27 AM
 
12,724 posts, read 3,228,585 times
Reputation: 1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
I would like to coin a term for followers of Semitic religions who dismiss non-Semitics as heathens or kafir (infidels).

These "pagans" include ancient Greeks/Romans, modern Hindus, Buddhists, Chinese (followers of Confucius or the Tao), not to mention smaller-by-numbers groups like Japanese (Shinto) and Native Americans.

Ancient Jews started it with the "gentiles" thing, but then it was enthusiastically taken up by Christians and Muslims. Hmm, what do all these religions have in common?
Not sure, but I think you are leaning toward that better understanding of these fundamentals as I just suggested in my prior comment. All worth "a second thought" in any case...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top