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Old 07-12-2019, 10:24 AM
 
5,467 posts, read 2,306,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Let's have you try being honest.

What percent of all christians give SIGNIFICANT amounts of their income to charity and don't deduct it from their income taxes?

What percent of all christians volunteer REGULARLY for something that isn't benefiting either their own family or their own church?

Having lived with methodists and catholics most of my life, the true answer is -- not many.

Oh, baloney. Did you actually take a poll, or just indulge in some lazy confirmation bias? Here's one that puts paid to your nonsense:

https://www.philanthropy.com/article...ve-More/153973
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,524 posts, read 10,420,275 times
Reputation: 20336
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Oh, baloney. Did you actually take a poll, or just indulge in some lazy confirmation bias? Here's one that puts paid to your nonsense:

https://www.philanthropy.com/article...ve-More/153973
That doesn't discount what I said at all. I stressed two words -- "significant" and "regularly".

To begin with, a lot of what is spoken of as "charity" and "volunteering" is self-serving.

Quite a few of my friends volunteered at a soup kitchen once a week. Okay fine. But in socializing with them I heard some of them brag about the "work", while what they were doing was socializing with each other. One -- who had nothing else to do in her life -- spent a whole 30 minutes a week. Oh wow. And then said unpleasant things about the clientele. As a principal I would see parents volunteer at our school...except what some were doing was just trying to supervise their own child's social lives. I personally know of a methodist church which used to direct charitable funding to missions in Kenya, based on the number of conversions at each mission, rather than being based on true need...and that's little more than buying converts.



Don't misunderstand or misquote me. I also know volunteers who spend MANY hours a week volunteering with the homeless or immigrants. I respect them. I know people who practically give till it hurts. I respect them. But that's not your typical American christian.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:56 AM
 
5,467 posts, read 2,306,085 times
Reputation: 16471
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
That doesn't discount what I said at all. I stressed two words -- "significant" and "regularly".

To begin with, a lot of what is spoken of as "charity" and "volunteering" is self-serving.

Quite a few of my friends volunteered at a soup kitchen once a week. Okay fine. But in socializing with them I heard some of them brag about the "work", while what they were doing was socializing with each other. One -- who had nothing else to do in her life -- spent a whole 30 minutes a week. Oh wow. And then said unpleasant things about the clientele. As a principal I would see parents volunteer at our school...except what some were doing was just trying to supervise their own child's social lives. I personally know of a methodist church which used to direct charitable funding to missions in Kenya, based on the number of conversions at each mission, rather than being based on true need...and that's little more than buying converts.



Don't misunderstand or misquote me. I also know volunteers who spend MANY hours a week volunteering with the homeless or immigrants. I respect them. I know people who practically give till it hurts. I respect them. But that's not your typical American christian.

In other words, nothing but a bunch of anecdotal stuff ginned up to fit your thesis.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,837 posts, read 4,976,659 times
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Every Christian I know gives money to charity, but then all the Christians I know, they go to cowboy church, and Cowboy church has missions all over the world where the Texas congregants are always thankful yo be able to send food to people without food, and many of the church take in people, my mother has taken in hundreds, literally hundreds of people.

But let's say that a church doesn't give that much to charity, EVERYONE PAYS FOR CHARITY. These aint like the old days, you aint got no money, fine. There is welfare, food stamps, housing, free phones, free water, and all sorts of help a person can recieve BECAUSE we all pay money into charity, all of us.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,107 posts, read 54,597,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Let's have you try being honest.

What percent of all christians give SIGNIFICANT amounts of their income to charity and don't deduct it from their income taxes?

What percent of all christians volunteer REGULARLY for something that isn't benefiting either their own family or their own church?

Having lived with methodists and catholics most of my life, the true answer is -- not many.
Curious as to that one. Why would they not deduct it from their income taxes? Does this imply that Christians only give to get a tax deduction?

Anecdotally, that's not true. I was never able to itemize until nine years ago when for the first time in my life I was able to buy a home of my own and deduct mortgage interest, yet I always gave to charity throughout the year (though not a church).

In addition, my parents were audited regularly because they gave ten percent of their pre-tax income (and some of that income was not taxable to begin with--my father was a 100% disabled WWII veteran and received compensation from the government for giving up his legs.) They chose to do that even though it meant not having luxuries that other people had--no new cars, no color television until the last b&w broke around 1975, no dishwasher (we 7 kids were their "dishwasher" )
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,524 posts, read 10,420,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Curious as to that one. Why would they not deduct it from their income taxes? Does this imply that Christians only give to get a tax deduction?

Anecdotally, that's not true. I was never able to itemize until nine years ago when for the first time in my life I was able to buy a home of my own and deduct mortgage interest, yet I always gave to charity throughout the year (though not a church).

In addition, my parents were audited regularly because they gave ten percent of their pre-tax income (and some of that income was not taxable to begin with--my father was a 100% disabled WWII veteran and received compensation from the government for giving up his legs.) They chose to do that even though it meant not having luxuries that other people had--no new cars, no color television until the last b&w broke around 1975, no dishwasher (we 7 kids were their "dishwasher" )
I decided long ago that if I am being charitable that that has nothing to do with my income taxes. So no, I don't deduct charitable donations on my income tax. Since paying off my mortgage, I no longer itemize, so now it's a moot point, but even when I did, I did not feel right about getting a tax break for being charitable. I didn't need a quid pro quo.

My kudos to you and your parents. But I believe you are the exception, not the rule.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,524 posts, read 10,420,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Oh, baloney. Did you actually take a poll, or just indulge in some lazy confirmation bias? Here's one that puts paid to your nonsense:

https://www.philanthropy.com/article...ve-More/153973
Come on now. I just looked through many of your posts, and you don't usually back things up with data. You state opinions.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,107 posts, read 54,597,263 times
Reputation: 66501
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I decided long ago that if I am being charitable that that has nothing to do with my income taxes. So no, I don't deduct charitable donations on my income tax. Since paying off my mortgage, I no longer itemize, so now it's a moot point, but even when I did, I did not feel right about getting a tax break for being charitable. I didn't need a quid pro quo.

My kudos to you and your parents. But I believe you are the exception, not the rule.
I really don't know what other people give to what. I'm not sure how you would know, either. It's a rather personal thing.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,107 posts, read 54,597,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Come on now. I just looked through many of your posts, and you don't usually back things up with data. You state opinions.
But he's Episcopalian, so you can be pretty sure his opinions are sound.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,524 posts, read 10,420,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
But he's Episcopalian, so you can be pretty sure his opinions are sound.
Sound? Perhaps noise.

But seriously, I have some respect for Episcopalians. They seem a bit more enlightened than many groups. But I know that varies.
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