U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old Yesterday, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,473 posts, read 10,404,462 times
Reputation: 20317

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
https://www.christianheadlines.com/c...vsL2uGphL7uPKY

Also, the Biblical city of Ziklag was recently discovered. Course, a million finds that support the Biblical narrative won't change the minds of skeptics. The Bible is one of the most supported historical documents from that time period by external evidence and yet they regard it as a bunch of myths by ignorant farmers. Because they HAVE to.
1. How many people here give a flying fig about philistines? Jeff, you don't understand...if some things written about the philistines turns out to be true...it doesn't really matter in regard to the big questions that fuel this forum.

2. I don't remember seeing any atheist on this forum say that there are no accurate facts in the bible. So you have no victory here.

3. Some minor fact about philistines doesn't prove that Jesus said something. It doesn't prove that there were Ten Commandments on a stone tablet that were created by god. When you come up with archaeological evidence that Jesus said some particular thing...get back to us.

4. But okay Jeff, if you're going say hey, archaeology proves this...then use that SAME STANDARD for everything else in the bible. That would be a big fail Jeff.

5. Cute phraseology -- "The Bible is one of the most supported historical documents from that time period". How many verified historical documents are there from that time period. Damn few.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 06:45 PM
 
5,932 posts, read 2,288,627 times
Reputation: 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
We have documented proof that Harry Potter is a work of fiction created by a specific author who says it is a work of fiction from her mind. Try again.
Arabian Nights, Native American myths, the Icelandic Sagas, Beowolf all have real locations or the original locations of peoples. The Book of Mormon as well.

Does it matter how much is factual in the Bible if nothing proven as facts are part of the religious or Spiritual nature? That they knew that one group came from Crete has what bearing on if Jesus was the Son of God ? The Vineland Saga even has archaeological evidence to support it but that does not mean the stories within it are basically true.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 06:56 PM
 
39,056 posts, read 10,837,135 times
Reputation: 5084
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
We have documented proof that Harry Potter is a work of fiction created by a specific author who says it is a work of fiction from her mind. Try again.
We have evidence that the Bible is a compilation work that does mention real places and sometimes real people, but that does not make the stories about God or miraculous events true, or anything mote than tweaks on real events.

Take the Assyrian siege of Jerusalem. Right after Sennacherib had broken down the walls of Lachish - which gets almost no mention in the Bible - after a siege of Jerusalem, the Assyrian army is struck down by God and Jerusalem is saved. But that doesn't seem to be what really happened. Hezekiah, seeing that it wasn't going to end well, asked for terms, agreed to submit to Sennacherib and pay tribute and Sennacherib agreed, because he'd been delayed by two tough sieges and he had a campaign to get on with.

That is the Assyrian version and seems likely because they carried on the campaign against the Babylonian coalition (which Hezekiah had joined) and forced them to submit. So the army can't have been all that smitten.

So places and even events fo not 'prove' the Bible. Not in terms of the religion. Rather, they disprove it.

It's interesting that they had heard of Caphtor (the Egyptian Keftiu - they knew of the Cretans, too) . They knew of the Philistines, but seem to think they were in Philistia at the time of the exodus - when the Sea Peoples from whom the Philistines were descended hadn't even arrived. They seem to know nothing of the Hyksos, and the Hittites were to the bible a tribe living in syria, not an Empire that could fight Egypt to a standstill. Their Hittites were the displaced remains of that empire after the incursion of the sea peoples- of which the Bible seems ignorant.

No, the best the Bible has is a view of the world they knew - 10th c. and later, and overlaid with a lot of improbable mythological stories.

No, A real New York does not mean a real spiderman.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 07:21 PM
 
11,240 posts, read 11,262,240 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
We have documented proof that Harry Potter is a work of fiction created by a specific author who says it is a work of fiction from her mind. Try again.

You think hundreds of Harry Potters didn't exist before the novels????? How do you know Rowlands didn't draw on these real characters to create a mythical one? Same thing with Jesus.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 12:27 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,053 posts, read 939,113 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
https://www.christianheadlines.com/c...vsL2uGphL7uPKY

Also, the Biblical city of Ziklag was recently discovered. Course, a million finds that support the Biblical narrative won't change the minds of skeptics. The Bible is one of the most supported historical documents from that time period by external evidence and yet they regard it as a bunch of myths by ignorant farmers. Because they HAVE to.
So you cherry pick some date (again) but ignore the evidence that shows the Jews did not replace the Canaanites but were Canaanites, and that the Jewish religion evolved from that of the Canaanites.

And if Ziklag has been found, that does not mean the Bible is true, as we know of several cities mentioned in the Bible. cities the Bible says Saul had built, but we know they were built 200 years after Saul allegedly died.

Of course, a million finds that REFUTE the Biblical narrative won't change the minds of the desperate. The idea that the Bible is one of the most supported historical documents from that time period by external evidence ignores that much of it is also pure invention.

We do not dismiss the bible because we HAVE to, that is a lie, we dismiss it because we look at ALL the evidence (such as Yahweh having a goddess as a wife).
Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 12:29 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,053 posts, read 939,113 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
We have documented proof that Harry Potter is a work of fiction created by a specific author who says it is a work of fiction from her mind. Try again.
Apart from the known author, that throws the gospels in the basket as history.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 03:12 AM
 
39,056 posts, read 10,837,135 times
Reputation: 5084
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
You think hundreds of Harry Potters didn't exist before the novels????? How do you know Rowlands didn't draw on these real characters to create a mythical one? Same thing with Jesus.
It's why we use Santa as an analogy of not believable after age 6-8. When the Christians point up the differences between Santa and God (which isn't the point of the analogy, anyway) we simply say 'That is no more true than god is an old man with a white beard chucking lightning about. Santa is in fact more mysterious than that. He doesn't really drive a flying sleigh about any more than God lives on a costume -jewellery throne on top of the sky-dome. No, Santa in invisible, ineffable, perfectly good, always right; he made everything, he owns everything. And what he wants to do is give you a million dollars.'

In fact Santa is an analogy of alternative religious claims.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 03:24 AM
 
39,056 posts, read 10,837,135 times
Reputation: 5084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
So you cherry pick some date (again) but ignore the evidence that shows the Jews did not replace the Canaanites but were Canaanites, and that the Jewish religion evolved from that of the Canaanites.

And if Ziklag has been found, that does not mean the Bible is true, as we know of several cities mentioned in the Bible. cities the Bible says Saul had built, but we know they were built 200 years after Saul allegedly died.

Of course, a million finds that REFUTE the Biblical narrative won't change the minds of the desperate. The idea that the Bible is one of the most supported historical documents from that time period by external evidence ignores that much of it is also pure invention.

We do not dismiss the bible because we HAVE to, that is a lie, we dismiss it because we look at ALL the evidence (such as Yahweh having a goddess as a wife).
It is of course interesting and significant that real places and people exist in the Bible. Real places (at least0 exist in the Tripitaka. Buddha says 'Let us go to such and such a place' and they go there and Buddha sits down and gives a discourse. So why the heeck should the writers invent a place that didn't exist? Of course it will be in place that they knew.

In the same way the Bible mentions places they knew. Even if the places didn't exist or weren't inhabited at the time. The NT is pretty good at this. Sepphoris and Jotapa isn't even mentioned, because it was destroyed in the Jewish war and the writers hadn't any interest in it, even if they'd heard of it. Instead they mention Nazareth and Bethlehem, and there are doubts that they were even inhabited at the time.

There's not the slightest doubt that Pilate really existed. But his whole story in the Gospels does not fit with what Josephus and Philo say about Pilate. The 'Passover release' custom has long been regarded as an invention.

The mention of places and people and even historically verified events has often been used to validate the Bible, but on examination of this evidence, it rather refutes it. That what the debate has shown to be the case. That's what has been shown here. And without even mentioning the prophecies of Tyre or Babylon. two of the favourite 'proofs' of the Bible, that turned around and bit it in its' morocco -bound ass.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 07:04 AM
 
8,618 posts, read 3,836,535 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
It is of course interesting and significant that real places and people exist in the Bible. Real places (at least0 exist in the Tripitaka. Buddha says 'Let us go to such and such a place' and they go there and Buddha sits down and gives a discourse. So why the heeck should the writers invent a place that didn't exist? Of course it will be in place that they knew.

In the same way the Bible mentions places they knew. Even if the places didn't exist or weren't inhabited at the time. The NT is pretty good at this. Sepphoris and Jotapa isn't even mentioned, because it was destroyed in the Jewish war and the writers hadn't any interest in it, even if they'd heard of it. Instead they mention Nazareth and Bethlehem, and there are doubts that they were even inhabited at the time.

There's not the slightest doubt that Pilate really existed. But his whole story in the Gospels does not fit with what Josephus and Philo say about Pilate. The 'Passover release' custom has long been regarded as an invention.

The mention of places and people and even historically verified events has often been used to validate the Bible, but on examination of this evidence, it rather refutes it. That what the debate has shown to be the case. That's what has been shown here. And without even mentioning the prophecies of Tyre or Babylon. two of the favourite 'proofs' of the Bible, that turned around and bit it in its' morocco -bound ass.
In other words, nothing will convince you. Why even have the field of Bible archaeology since you just wrote it off as definitive myth? Every find lends a point of credibility to the Bible. You want 100% proof? Not going to happen because there is very few things that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is why some people still don't believe we landed on the moon 50 years later.

One thing you can't deny. Israel didn't become a forgotten nation in the dustbins of history just like pretty much every other culture from that time period. The nation is alive and quite prosperous today just like the Bible predicted. And it is the focal point for world politics and surrounded by enemies. A tiny strip of land. Just like the Bible predicted.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,938 posts, read 8,403,847 times
Reputation: 15545
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
In other words, nothing will convince you. Why even have the field of Bible archaeology since you just wrote it off as definitive myth?
I don’t know why you would have a field of biblical archaeology in the way you describe it. It is a travesty of science to come up with a conclusion and then selectively look for evidence to support it, which is what you seem to think biblical archaeology does. Rather, we should have a field of archaeology that uncovers items that then leads us to conclusions.

Quote:
One thing you can't deny. Israel didn't become a forgotten nation in the dustbins of history just like pretty much every other culture from that time period. The nation is alive and quite prosperous today just like the Bible predicted. And it is the focal point for world politics and surrounded by enemies. A tiny strip of land. Just like the Bible predicted.
You mean a forgotten nation like Italy, Greece, Egypt, China, Iran, India, or France, among others? We can track the evolution of these nations over the same time period. Yes, they have morphed and transformed over time, but no more so than Israel. The fact that a modern nation state can trace its origins to some semi legendary tribal kingdom is not in the least remarkable.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top