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Old Today, 08:11 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,053 posts, read 939,113 times
Reputation: 713

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
In other words, nothing will convince you.
Evidence will. Unlike for you, who has to ignore evidence.
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Old Today, 08:21 AM
Status: "Summertime, and the living's easy" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: The Eastern Shore
2,114 posts, read 588,037 times
Reputation: 1113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Evidence will. Unlike for you, who has to ignore evidence.
In fact, he goes searching for evidence to confirm his already held beliefs... I believe this is called confirmation bias. One could use such a thing to "prove" Bigfoot or aliens are real too. Doesn't mean they are though.
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Old Today, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,474 posts, read 10,404,462 times
Reputation: 20317
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
In other words, nothing will convince you. Why even have the field of Bible archaeology since you just wrote it off as definitive myth? Every find lends a point of credibility to the Bible. You want 100% proof? Not going to happen because there is very few things that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is why some people still don't believe we landed on the moon 50 years later.

One thing you can't deny. Israel didn't become a forgotten nation in the dustbins of history just like pretty much every other culture from that time period. The nation is alive and quite prosperous today just like the Bible predicted. And it is the focal point for world politics and surrounded by enemies. A tiny strip of land. Just like the Bible predicted.
First of all, bigger claims demand bigger proof. That's something you don't seem to understand. You are pushing what one might call the ultimate reality. Fine, for a truly thinking and open-minded person, that's going to require a very high level of proof. Of course, you try to fudge things up, which is a form of lying, which is, btw, against your religion. I don't recall anyone asking for "100% proof". I don't recall anyone asking for "beyond a shadow of a doubt". I think what we are asking for is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Those are two very different things.

You have to be very careful with "bible archaeology". A "bible archaeologist" is very apt to be very biased.

There are places mentioned in Buddhist scriptures that we have evidence actually existed. Do you therefore acknowledge that the Buddhist scriptures are now all proven? I doubt it.

Here's my advice. You love Israel so much. Why don't you go live there. See if it lives up to your christian paradise. Oh wait. It's a Jewish state. They're not christians. Hmmmm.
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Old Today, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
14,391 posts, read 7,921,507 times
Reputation: 53488
Of course there is factual information in the Bible. It's a history book written by ancient men. Where does it prove that there is a God? I mean actual proof and not just words written by man that says it's true.
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Old Today, 09:16 AM
 
5,934 posts, read 2,288,627 times
Reputation: 2221
The Norse Sagas mention real people and real places. Vineland settlement was unknown until the 1960s. We now have undisputed evidence that Vineland existed plus we now also know that the N9rse had settlements in Greenland. And we have archaeological evidence for them.

If people, events and places actually existed in the Norse Sagas surely that must mean that Norse God's exists, and the monsters in the sagas, and the magic. This should be sufficient for you to believe in the Norse Gods.

I don't know much about Hinduism but if actual places, peoples and events in their Holy Books actually existed would you accept that the entire book is true and accept the gods and goddesses of the Hindu religion?

First question, why do you think we should accept a lower standard of evidence for the Bible being true than you require for the Norse and Hindu religions being true?

Isreal is a product of Western guilt and then Jewish terrorism. I don't see how you can worship a God that used the Holocaust and then caused the strife and wars in the Middle East just to fulfill a prophecy.
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Old Today, 10:38 AM
 
8,623 posts, read 3,836,535 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Evidence will. Unlike for you, who has to ignore evidence.
The weight of evidence heavily tips the scales in favor of Christianity and the Bible. So you only have to come up with enough counter weight evidence to tip the scales back in your favor. Good luck with that. Would kinda like be claiming that my parents are really alien beings even though all the evidence I've experienced says otherwise.
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Old Today, 10:41 AM
 
8,623 posts, read 3,836,535 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
Of course there is factual information in the Bible. It's a history book written by ancient men. Where does it prove that there is a God? I mean actual proof and not just words written by man that says it's true.
And exactly how would you go about proving that there is a God? Even if we had a video tape, u could just claim it was doctored. There is always a way to cast doubt on anything.
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Old Today, 10:51 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,053 posts, read 939,113 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
The weight of evidence heavily tips the scales in favor of Christianity and the Bible.
Refutes. It heavily refutes the bible. The weight of evidence heavily refutes the bible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
So you only have to come up with enough counter weight evidence to tip the scales back in your favor.
You are two centuries behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Good luck with that.
Luck not required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Would kinda like be claiming that my parents are really alien beings even though all the evidence I've experienced says otherwise.
No, it is nothing like that.
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Old Today, 11:17 AM
 
39,057 posts, read 10,837,135 times
Reputation: 5084
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
In other words, nothing will convince you. Why even have the field of Bible archaeology since you just wrote it off as definitive myth? Every find lends a point of credibility to the Bible. You want 100% proof? Not going to happen because there is very few things that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is why some people still don't believe we landed on the moon 50 years later.

One thing you can't deny. Israel didn't become a forgotten nation in the dustbins of history just like pretty much every other culture from that time period. The nation is alive and quite prosperous today just like the Bible predicted. And it is the focal point for world politics and surrounded by enemies. A tiny strip of land. Just like the Bible predicted.
So, you ignore the evidence that- despite mentioning real places, and even events and people - the claims for a divine input is not supported. Isn't it rather than no evidence will convince YOU that the Bible accounts are not reliable?

Instead, you play the 'israel survives' card. You don't need to convince me that a conviction that a god is looking out for Israel is an effective survival instinct, but you will have to do some work to convince me that -if true - this wouldn't make Judaism true rather than Christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
First of all, bigger claims demand bigger proof. That's something you don't seem to understand. You are pushing what one might call the ultimate reality. Fine, for a truly thinking and open-minded person, that's going to require a very high level of proof. Of course, you try to fudge things up, which is a form of lying, which is, btw, against your religion. I don't recall anyone asking for "100% proof". I don't recall anyone asking for "beyond a shadow of a doubt". I think what we are asking for is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Those are two very different things.

You have to be very careful with "bible archaeology". A "bible archaeologist" is very apt to be very biased.

There are places mentioned in Buddhist scriptures that we have evidence actually existed. Do you therefore acknowledge that the Buddhist scriptures are now all proven? I doubt it.

Here's my advice. You love Israel so much. Why don't you go live there. See if it lives up to your christian paradise. Oh wait. It's a Jewish state. They're not christians. Hmmmm.
Ah I would expect to have Israel disregarded as a state that god will vindicate in the end, but a State that that will be trampled in a general Armageddon which will vindicate Christianity, in the end.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; Today at 11:25 AM..
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Old Today, 11:21 AM
 
39,057 posts, read 10,837,135 times
Reputation: 5084
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
The Norse Sagas mention real people and real places. Vineland settlement was unknown until the 1960s. We now have undisputed evidence that Vineland existed plus we now also know that the N9rse had settlements in Greenland. And we have archaeological evidence for them.

If people, events and places actually existed in the Norse Sagas surely that must mean that Norse God's exists, and the monsters in the sagas, and the magic. This should be sufficient for you to believe in the Norse Gods.

I don't know much about Hinduism but if actual places, peoples and events in their Holy Books actually existed would you accept that the entire book is true and accept the gods and goddesses of the Hindu religion?

First question, why do you think we should accept a lower standard of evidence for the Bible being true than you require for the Norse and Hindu religions being true?

Isreal is a product of Western guilt and then Jewish terrorism. I don't see how you can worship a God that used the Holocaust and then caused the strife and wars in the Middle East just to fulfill a prophecy.
We don't even need to go that far. Greece and Rome have histories that cause us a puzzle. They read as reliable fact, as good or better than anything in the Bible. And then you get a pagan miracle slap in the middle of it. Should we believe it? Should Jeff? i rather doubt it. Only Bible miracles are supposed to be believed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
And exactly how would you go about proving that there is a God? Even if we had a video tape, u could just claim it was doctored. There is always a way to cast doubt on anything.
I have certainly had serious doubts about some of the Christian-propaganda videos you have posted in the past, but we are talking of direct conflicting evidence here. A Assyrian account that is contemporary wit the events. Archaeology that debunked the Jericho-trumpets claim (which Biblical archaeology of the 'Bible in one hand, spade in the other' type could not wait to trumpet as True because the city had collapsed walls). Evidence has undermined the Exodus account, thrown doubt on the 'Conquest' and cold water on the empires of Solomon and David. Real people no doubt, but can we rely on the stories about them?

No, the only one who is rejecting what the actual evidence says, as opposed to what you would like it say, is you.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; Today at 11:33 AM..
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