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Old 07-25-2019, 04:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallbuilder View Post
It's interesting how Jesus was supposedly a real person in the Galilee are who had 1,000s of eye witnesses and yet there is practically no archeological evidence of the religion existing in that region of eminating from it. The Gospels were written in Greek and the early Christian church blomossomed out of Rome.

Whaddaya mean "practically"?????? There's not a penny's worth of archeological evidence for Christianity or Jesus from that region, PERIOD!



Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
It's a sound point, and one I've noticed myself. Whatever the origins of Jewish Christianity, Paul took that particular ball and ran with it and it became the most successful Roman religion of all. it would probably have beaten Isis, Mithraism and the Imperial Sungod- cult combined. And whatever Christianity was in Judea was stamped out by the Latin church.

Christianity's success can't be traced to any superiority in its doctrine or miracles or anything like that. Christianity's main strength was its initiative to providing charitable care for down-and outs, thus pagans joined it in the early years to get free health care. As a condition for getting the care pagans had to listen to the Christians' guff about how Jesus died on a cross to free them from their sin, bla bla. THAT'S why Christianity spread in its early years.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,436 posts, read 54,840,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Do you mean why it is important to me? I find it an interesting idea in the evolution of the different versions of Christianity, and answers better some odd questions that a historical Jesus does not.



This I often ask myself, does the nature of Jesus, whether myth, man or angel change the message at all?
I know an Episcopal deacon who would tell you "no".

She said that if tomorrow someone proved to her beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus never existed, she would not change the worldview she developed as a Christian. In the Episcopal Church, you can say things like that out loud.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,814 posts, read 10,512,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I know an Episcopal deacon who would tell you "no".

She said that if tomorrow someone proved to her beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus never existed, she would not change the worldview she developed as a Christian. In the Episcopal Church, you can say things like that out loud.
What I think would be interesting to witness would be if tomorrow we found out conclusively that Jesus was an African. My oh my.
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Old 07-25-2019, 11:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Whaddaya mean "practically"?????? There's not a penny's worth of archeological evidence for Christianity or Jesus from that region, PERIOD!






Christianity's success can't be traced to any superiority in its doctrine or miracles or anything like that. Christianity's main strength was its initiative to providing charitable care for down-and outs, thus pagans joined it in the early years to get free health care. As a condition for getting the care pagans had to listen to the Christians' guff about how Jesus died on a cross to free them from their sin, bla bla. THAT'S why Christianity spread in its early years.
I agree - partly. Christianity -I think - had an appeal to people that worked even better than the popular ones - Mithras, Isis and a few others. It offered something for the people who (I suspect) were not part of the Roman society and had no hope. I can see how Christianity provided that. It had a story like no other, and sounded like real events in their own time, not some magical myth in the unknown past. Oh yes, I see the appeal, right enough.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-26-2019 at 12:34 AM..
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Old 07-25-2019, 11:42 PM
 
39,381 posts, read 10,970,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I know an Episcopal deacon who would tell you "no".

She said that if tomorrow someone proved to her beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus never existed, she would not change the worldview she developed as a Christian. In the Episcopal Church, you can say things like that out loud.
We atheists are familiar with and old saying (anecdotal, but representative, I think) 'If God doesn't exist, I don't want to know". It the difference between the faith-based mindset and the rational. Hard truths or comfortable lies.
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Old 07-25-2019, 11:47 PM
 
39,381 posts, read 10,970,775 times
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Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What I think would be interesting to witness would be if tomorrow we found out conclusively that Jesus was an African. My oh my.
we already knew that Jesus was really a Jew, but Christians seemed to convince themselves that he was really not I was quite amused as a youngster by some depictions of Jesus as a fair -haired, blue eyed Westerner. Even the usual dark -bearded, long -haired portrait that is supposed to be his 'Middle eastern' look owes more to the appearance of Byzantine Greeks than to Judaism.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:14 AM
 
11,299 posts, read 11,312,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I agree - partly. Christianity -I think - had an appeal to people that worked even better than the popular ones - Mithras, Isis and a few others. It offered something for the people who (I suspect) were not part of the Roman society and had no hope. I can see how Christianity provided that. It had a story like no other, and sounded like real events in their own time, not some maginal myth in the unknown past. Oh yes, I see the appeal, right enough.

Exactly! Well said.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:24 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,218 posts, read 976,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Aside from my very strong impression of larger investment than you acknowledge,
Of course I have a larger investment. The history of the early church is one of my interests. I invest time just as those who collect train numbers.

I have no problem if Christians want to believe the gospel stories are true, or part true. I do have a problem when people who have not invested the time I have tell me I am wrong.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:33 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,218 posts, read 976,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Christianity's success can't be traced to any superiority in its doctrine or miracles or anything like that. Christianity's main strength was its initiative to providing charitable care for down-and outs, thus pagans joined it in the early years to get free health care. As a condition for getting the care pagans had to listen to the Christians' guff about how Jesus died on a cross to free them from their sin, bla bla. THAT'S why Christianity spread in its early years.
It may be, but the Romans (and Greeks) had some health care before Christianity arrived. But one reason is Christianity was one of those religions that promised an eternal afterlife. But even then it does not look like Christianity was that popular, as Pliny the Younger did not know anything about it in 110 AD, and was told people were leaving the religion.

Eusebius tells us Christianity did develop health care, as this was denied to first time heretics until they repented. If they became heretics a second time, they could never be accepted back in the church, and therefore received no Christian health care.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:35 AM
 
39,381 posts, read 10,970,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Exactly! Well said.
Thank you You wouldn't care to correct 'maginal' to 'magical', would you?
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