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Old 07-27-2019, 09:39 PM
 
11,341 posts, read 11,344,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
I'm just sharing what I have been informed is competent medical information. If you can competently show it is wrong, do so. That it dovetails so neatly with details of the narrative is a problem for your agenda. So suffer.

I just did show it's wrong. Where were you?
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:40 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,860 posts, read 74,871,719 times
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My ancestors are not here I am
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,393 posts, read 7,728,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I just did show it's wrong. Where were you?
Iguessyou simply didn't understand what I was saying I was sharing and therefore what you need to show is in error. Not surprising. I'll try again: I was simply sharing what I understand to be competent medical information about the processes and practice of crucifixion. That this information dovetails so distinctly with the narrative seems to be a problem to you. Can you show that the medical information is in error?
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:29 AM
 
39,651 posts, read 11,061,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
I'm just sharing what I have been informed is competent medical information. If you can competently show it is wrong, do so. That it dovetails so neatly with details of the narrative is a problem for your agenda. So suffer.
In fact it refutes the account. You will be aware that John's leg -breaking doesn't appear at all in the synoptics and in fact Luke tacitly denies it when Jesus appears that night and shows his war -wounds but not the one in the side. Which John has because he has the spear -thrust.

Whether this means that 'John' invented the episode to fit the Psalms prophecy or that was really what happened and 'John' merely found a handy bit of scripture to work as prophecy is argauble. Since it is less credible that the synoptics left it out than that John added it, one either has to dismiss John or (and sometimes 'John' does seem to have convincing 'inside' information) the synoptics knew vaguely about the crucifixion and nothing about the 'spear -thrust' and all the details (which were contradictory anyway) they just made up.

Bottom line, the crucifixion (though I am sure there was one) is as fill of gospel fabrication as the resurrection accounts.

But..

If..one were to take the accounts as broadly reliable, then the details - including your leg-breaking event - would pretty much guarantee that the 'resurrection' is explained just as Matthew says.

"The disciples stole the body". What is more they planned to 'steal the body' right from the start and what is more - Pilate had to be helping them. Don't we recall that he tried to let jesus off and the Sanhedrin overbore him? Wouldn't he be willing to do a deal with Arimathea who went to 'ask for the body' to hatch a plot to get Jesus off the cross alive? Heck - hadn't the 'Lazarus' trick to wow the onlookers been a dry run rehearsal for this?

Of course, I don't believe the accounts but if I did, then tuppence what Lane - Craig says or that retired cop who swears the resurrection accounts would stand up in court If it was broadly reliable, a plot to Jesus off the cross alive is inescapable.
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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So, broadly, death in a single day was not the norm. The explanation for the report that it happened is reasonable and we resort to conspiracy theories to deny it....got it
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,023 posts, read 10,583,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
It is true that archeology has failed to substantiate the earliest origin stories of the Israelites.

But sweeping generalizations are never accurate. IMO, Jesus took what he knew of Torah and created something new on its foundation. He was a radical and beloved teacher who was uninterested in the trappings of high religion.

His teachings about love and the value of repentance have deep meaning, if you dare look into them.
The problem is that too many christian religionists spend too much time defending the accuracy of things in the OT, rather than LIVING by the teaching of love that Jesus supposedly taught. Y'all dilute the value of your own message.

But let me ask you a question....actually 2.

1. If the bible-god-jesus-son-of-god-resurrection is NOT true, is there value in love as a principle?
2. If the bible-god-jesus-son-of-god-resurrection is NOT true, is there value in repentance as a principle? (And I would like you to explain that value).
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:18 AM
 
40,412 posts, read 26,927,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
The problem is that too many Christian religionists spend too much time defending the accuracy of things in the OT, rather than LIVING by the teaching of love that Jesus supposedly taught. Y'all dilute the value of your own message.
Amen, phet, you rascal!
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Germany
5,303 posts, read 995,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
This thread just serves to demonstrate the issue with this forum. There is a group of people that have no idea whatsoever what the Bible is about, and what Christianity is about that are criticizing it and trying to poke holes in it.

Interesting thing is, I've said it repeatedly, that if I decide to make a comment about any religion, I get told that unless I belong to that religion, I should keep my trap shut. But it's encouraged here for ignorant people to spout off on Christianity.
Which Christianity? There are several in the NT? You appear to be ignorant about this.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:43 AM
 
11,341 posts, read 11,344,405 times
Reputation: 3502
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Iguessyou simply didn't understand what I was saying I was sharing and therefore what you need to show is in error. Not surprising. I'll try again: I was simply sharing what I understand to be competent medical information about the processes and practice of crucifixion. That this information dovetails so distinctly with the narrative seems to be a problem to you. Can you show that the medical information is in error?

Why on earth would you trust info in a gospel that was written by someone who wasn't even there??????? If your point is, "I don't care if the gospel was written by an eyewitness or not, I'm just saying is the info consistent with what a doctor would say?" I'd answer "You'll have to talk to a doctor" but what's the point if the source of the info is so unreliable????? That's what I don't get.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,393 posts, read 7,728,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Why on earth would you trust info in a gospel that was written by someone who wasn't even there??????? If your point is, "I don't care if the gospel was written by an eyewitness or not, I'm just saying is the info consistent with what a doctor would say?" I'd answer "You'll have to talk to a doctor" but what's the point if the source of the info is so unreliable????? That's what I don't get.
Let's try one more time: the information I was sharing is MEDICAL, i.e. From a doctor who made a study of the effects of crucifixion and the need to support the upper body if the torture is to last the days it normally took under Roman practices.

The fact that this information supports the sequence of events in the narrative is a problem for you. Deal with it.
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