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You know I am not a solipsist, Arq. But you just take for granted that distinguishing what is really "out there" as part of our Reality is an easy and trivial matter. It is NOT. Our abilities to validate our Reality is limited to the 5% or less of it amenable to our scientific investigations.
No I don't. I trust the findings of science about reality as much as you do, though you pretend that you don't when it suits you. And please do not weary my ears with another repetition of this miserable 'we only know 5% of reality' 'appeal to unknowns' argument. Now stop hi-jacking this thread, please.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-28-2019 at 02:57 PM..
There is no Hell punishment. God does NOT punish. Hell punishment is a heinous abomination of human origin that has nothing whatsoever to do with God.
I'm inclined to agree with that Opinion, though I wouldn't present it as a fact known through divine revelation as i am sure you do.
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=Iwasmadenew;55785441]Jang Jaswal's Near-Death Experience (was an atheist at the time)
]Jang Jaswal (Atheist/Hindu) was all through his life an Atheist. One year ago he had a heart surgery and went to the afterlife. He found himself in a valley with some people there facing a big bright light. He had some questions in his mind and received telepathic answers. He was called a Dog. He heard someone say” The dog has arrived” Then he was shown the universe and shown how insignificant he is. The light came to him and shone on him.
Dear oh dear. I actually looked at this one to see whether it was of a Hindu bent or purported Abrahamic religion (in fact it was pretty Hindu) and i would like to see one of those witness-statement analysts consider his story as it has a lot of fishy aspects - the story -narrtive and construction, the representation of atheism by someone who has never been an atheist would be very much as it is given here. And peering through a gap in the clouds and seeing earth rotating? Really? You don't get a 'Dreamlike' feeling (to be charitable) about that?
In any case, suppose that it was representing reality. I reckon atheists would come out of it pretty well.
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Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
More accurately: Nobody (i.e TRANSPONDER) is going to be convinced unless they are open-minded and humble enough to be able to consider an opinion different from their own.
Do you really think I'm expecting anyone to be convinced from a couple videos?? If someone is genuinely interested in answers they would not limit themselves to a discussion forum, waiting for convincing evidence to be "presented" to them. I've researched this topic. Have you researched it, or is your opinion 'uninformed'?
If you weren't using them to preach, what was the point is posting them anyway? Well we know what the point was in you Bolding of the word 'atheist' (1). This is not the psychology or mental health forum. If you've really 'researched' the topic (as distinct from just gobbled it all up finding the confirmation of what you would like to believe), you would know that was far too early to see it as the evidence that it was claimed to be (with indignant denunciation of anyone who suggested waiting for research first) when this stuff first appeared, and that subsequent research has rather lessened these experiences as any credible representation of reality.
i am not, of course, going to ask whether you are 'open minded' enough to look at the Other side of the research as i know already. You can't have done, and I would bet another large wodge of dosh that you won't.
(1) The good old "I used to be an atheist...like you, until..." And nearly always (in fact every time, so far as i can remember) by people who seemed to have forgotten everything about being the atheist they supposedly were.
P.s It may be an Arq Atheist Axion but it's relevant- "An atheist can usually put on a convincing impression of being a Theist believer, but a theist believer is unlikely to make a convincing job of pretending to be an atheist."
Or having used to be one.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-28-2019 at 03:07 PM..
In any case, suppose that it was representing reality. I reckon atheists would come out of it pretty well.
The atheists in the videos were given a second chance. Most will not get one. If you aren't lucky enough to have a NDE, and you die and stay dead, there will be no second chance to reconsider your beliefs.
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If you weren't using them to preach, what was the point is posting them anyway?
Someone (you) made a claim in an earlier comment about "Christian people getting Christian NDEs." The videos I posted are examples that contradict what you think. These NDE videos feature athiests who became Christians as a result.
Your tendency to wait for someone else on a discussion forum to "present" you with a convincing argument leaves you with nothing more than an uninformed opinion.
Jang Jaswal (Atheist/Hindu) was all through his life an Atheist. One year ago he had a heart surgery and went to the afterlife. He found himself in a valley with some people there facing a big bright light. He had some questions in his mind and received telepathic answers. He was called a Dog. He heard someone say” The dog has arrived” Then he was shown the universe and shown how insignificant he is. The light came to him and shone on him.
Nancy Rynes was a successful science writer and a woman of the Earth. Firmly grounded in physical things and never giving the spirit world a thought. In fact she calls herself Atheist/Agnostic just before her fatal accident with a truck one day while riding her bicycle.She died for 17 minutes and went to the afterlife. Where would an Atheist go if they died? Find out what happened to Nancy Rynes when she passed over into the other side of life.
Oh dear. Yet another string of... 'I was an atheist until...' videos. Or as most people with any sense call them... 'I was an atheist until I discovered a way to make a lot of money out of very gullible people...'
The atheists in the videos were given a second chance. Most will not get one. If you aren't lucky enough to have a NDE, and you die and stay dead, there will be no second chance to reconsider your beliefs.
This is just a variant of helfire-preaching. If the atheists don't believe in the 'afterlife' they go to when they die, what have they lost?
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Someone (you) made a claim in an earlier comment about "Christian people getting Christian NDEs." The videos I posted are examples that contradict what you think. These NDE videos feature athiests who became Christians as a result.
You misunderstand the point. That people will get NDE- dreams that reflect the religion they were taught shows they are products of their own brain. Assuming stories by former atheists (as i note is often the case, they don't seem to know what being an atheist actually is) are true, it doesn't make what they dreamed real.
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Your tendency to wait for someone else on a discussion forum to "present" you with a convincing argument leaves you with nothing more than an uninformed opinion.
Poor thinking. The example here of preachers (You) putting forward 'evidence' which we have to evaluate makes us better informed that the ones putting forward the evidence as they never look at the other side and you clearly aren't listening to the rebuttals even now.
Oh dear. Yet another string of... 'I was an atheist until...' videos. Or as most people with any sense call them... 'I was an atheist until I discovered a way to make a lot of money out of very gullible people...'
You think this is a money maker? I don't doubt that a million could be made from the Believers looking for bias- confirmation by publishing 'Personal Visits to heaven and tea with Jesus' NDE experiences. There are three possibilities about these NDE's.
(1) invented stories to either persuade or to make some money. I recall the near scandal about the heaven-vision claim by a kid that turned out to be a fake.
(2) a real mental phenomenon which is misinterpreted. That these experiences appear to be individual and conflicting, like most of these mental 'Revelations' about God and heaven, which, like the whole business of religions and the "god" (the rule is Lower Case) claim at base, is strong evidence that they are human imagination and nothing more.
(3) they do reveal an experience of a real afterlife. Really doubtful, but if it is true, I don't think atheists need worry. No religion has the exclusive concession for issuing entry tickets to the afterlife. And what god who knows everything would blame atheists for using their heads rather than blindly believing in this or that god? When god would really be so petty and childish to bar people from an afterlife because they din't believe in a god or religion?.
That was the message of the Hinduvid I watched. 'a god of some sort called the fellow a 'dog' because he had been (he claimed) an atheist. That reflects the dislike of the Religious for atheists rather than any rel dislike of a 'god' for atheists.
One of the things that many people cannot get their head around, is a punishment that lasts FOREVER.
My understanding is that time is something we experience here on Earth. When we are done here, if there is another realm it is supposed to be a timeless one. Past, present and future are all one, no real sense of time. The idea of "forever" may just mean something to us here. We may be using words like forever and eternity to describe something we don't really know how to describe. It may feel like something is forever or eternal from our point of view while living on Earth.
My understanding is that time is something we experience here on Earth. When we are done here, if there is another realm it is supposed to be a timeless one. Past, present and future are all one, no real sense of time. The idea of "forever" may just mean something to us here. We may be using words like forever and eternity to describe something we don't really know how to describe. It may feel like something is forever or eternal from our point of view while living on Earth.
Right, there is no time in the afterlife...people automatically believe words like 'eternal and forever' equates to a really long long time....but in this case it doesnt, it means NO TIME.
3 milliseconds and 3 trillion years would feel would feel exactly the same in a place without time!
I dont believe as living breathing humans, we can even begin to comprehend what an existence in a place with no time, is like.
One of the things that many people cannot get their head around, is a punishment that lasts FOREVER.
What on earth could anyone do, to warrant such a punishment?
It really makes no sense, and is simply beyond comprehension.
Many people that have experienced Hell on the other side (through NDE's etc), have said that this was just, and the punishment for their sin, whatever that may be, was perfectly justified.
Is this just an extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome?
How could anyone not object to it?
If there is not a universal bridge, or an area of penance and purification, then God is building one hell of a big Hell. (no pun intended)
This is what the true living God set before all--Deuteronomy 30:19--LIFE or DEATH--Both will be everlasting.
Fact--Every one that actually knows the true God knows symbolism is taught about eternal suffering in the NT--Blind guides teach it literal. His justice scales make eternal suffering an impossibility to be literal. An eye for an eye= perfect balance--uncorruptable.
So for 70-100 years of unrepented sin God could not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of suffering. The blind guides that do not know the true God teach him as that sadist with a literal eternal suffering.
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God's Hell punishment is worse than Hitler, Stalin, ISIS etc
I actually looked at this one to see whether it was of a Hindu bent or purported Abrahamic religion (in fact it was pretty Hindu) and i would like to see one of those witness-statement analysts consider his story as it has a lot of fishy aspects - the story -narrtive and construction, the representation of atheism by someone who has never been an atheist would be very much as it is given here. And peering through a gap in the clouds and seeing earth rotating? Really? You don't get a 'Dreamlike' feeling (to be charitable) about that? 
