U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-27-2019, 12:39 AM
 
Location: NSW
2,759 posts, read 1,877,894 times
Reputation: 955

Advertisements

One of the things that many people cannot get their head around, is a punishment that lasts FOREVER.
What on earth could anyone do, to warrant such a punishment?
It really makes no sense, and is simply beyond comprehension.
Many people that have experienced Hell on the other side (through NDE's etc), have said that this was just, and the punishment for their sin, whatever that may be, was perfectly justified.
Is this just an extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome?
How could anyone not object to it?
If there is not a universal bridge, or an area of penance and purification, then God is building one hell of a big Hell. (no pun intended)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-27-2019, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,336 posts, read 10,378,324 times
Reputation: 2621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Many people that have experienced Hell on the other side (through NDE's etc), ...
Many people that CLAIM to have experienced.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 07:10 AM
 
39,381 posts, read 10,970,775 times
Reputation: 5111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
One of the things that many people cannot get their head around, is a punishment that lasts FOREVER.
What on earth could anyone do, to warrant such a punishment?
It really makes no sense, and is simply beyond comprehension.
Many people that have experienced Hell on the other side (through NDE's etc), have said that this was just, and the punishment for their sin, whatever that may be, was perfectly justified.
Is this just an extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome?
How could anyone not object to it?
If there is not a universal bridge, or an area of penance and purification, then God is building one hell of a big Hell. (no pun intended)
I'm really reluctant to do this but are there any such NDE-stories that experience hell and claimed that it was all perfectly just and justified and fine, fine, fine, and perfectly good and God is not being nasty and he good and Just and it's fine, fine, fine, or is this just a a new apologetic to try to get God off the hook?

All the NDE stories I heard were vision of heaven.

"We do know that Frightening Near Death Experiences (FNDEs) are rare, but it has been hard to determine the exact frequency at which they occur. Reports in the literature, of those having NDEs, suggest that the distressing experiences range from only 1% to 15% of that total." (Psychology today)

So, can we get some accounts of these and (aside from the 'you really want to avoid this, so convert right now' angle that we can guess is the topic here) do we also get the question: 'While these people were experiencing NDE Hell, did they also get the experience that it was all perfectly justified and God was in no way being nasty and these tortured souls put themselves there and none of them blamed God for it and it's all fine, fine fine', or is that - as i suggested - a cunning new 'get God off the hook' apologetic?

.....


despite myself, I'm getting interested. There are Pleasurable NDE's, where you meet all your relatives. Or So - Called Pleasurable NDE's

The 'Void' NDE's where you are told that none of this existed and neither did you (this is possibly the one that atheists get)

and the dNDE (distresing NDE) which may involve reliving your life, being jugged..I mean being judged, or being in hell - usually as an observer; rarely being in it. I saw No suggestion of the people involved making any comments that it was all perfectly Justified, God was in no way to be criticised or there was never any doubt that He was anything but Just, Good and Merciful and it was all Fine, fine, fine.

And i strongly suspect that - whether Derek knew there were FNDE's or just guessed there were, the Exoneration of God aspect of the NDEs was just added on.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-27-2019 at 07:33 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 10:40 AM
 
10,809 posts, read 2,775,574 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I'm really reluctant to do this but are there any such NDE-stories that experience hell and claimed that it was all perfectly just and justified and fine, fine, fine, and perfectly good and God is not being nasty and he good and Just and it's fine, fine, fine, or is this just a a new apologetic to try to get God off the hook?

All the NDE stories I heard were vision of heaven.

"We do know that Frightening Near Death Experiences (FNDEs) are rare, but it has been hard to determine the exact frequency at which they occur. Reports in the literature, of those having NDEs, suggest that the distressing experiences range from only 1% to 15% of that total." (Psychology today)

So, can we get some accounts of these and (aside from the 'you really want to avoid this, so convert right now' angle that we can guess is the topic here) do we also get the question: 'While these people were experiencing NDE Hell, did they also get the experience that it was all perfectly justified and God was in no way being nasty and these tortured souls put themselves there and none of them blamed God for it and it's all fine, fine fine', or is that - as i suggested - a cunning new 'get God off the hook' apologetic?

.....


despite myself, I'm getting interested. There are Pleasurable NDE's, where you meet all your relatives. Or So - Called Pleasurable NDE's

The 'Void' NDE's where you are told that none of this existed and neither did you (this is possibly the one that atheists get)

and the dNDE (distresing NDE) which may involve reliving your life, being jugged..I mean being judged, or being in hell - usually as an observer; rarely being in it. I saw No suggestion of the people involved making any comments that it was all perfectly Justified, God was in no way to be criticised or there was never any doubt that He was anything but Just, Good and Merciful and it was all Fine, fine, fine.

And i strongly suspect that - whether Derek knew there were FNDE's or just guessed there were, the Exoneration of God aspect of the NDEs was just added on.
I had a good friend that experienced a 'hellish' NDE years ago. He was the perfect candidate too, despite being a good friend, he was involved in shady business, get rich quick schemes, he was cheating on his wife frequently too.


I saw him the day after this happened, he was still shaking with fear, he was going on and on about what he saw, he said there is no accurate way to describe how horrible it is.


When he got out of the hospital, he was a changed man, he got a regular job, he renewed his vows to his wife and started going to a christian church...unfortunately this didnt last long though, before he was back to his old ways, he ended up dying (for good) a few months later. I often wonder where he is right now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 10:41 AM
 
11,299 posts, read 11,312,528 times
Reputation: 3487
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I'm really reluctant to do this but are there any such NDE-stories that experience hell and claimed that it was all perfectly just and justified and fine, fine, fine, and perfectly good and God is not being nasty and he good and Just and it's fine, fine, fine, or is this just a a new apologetic to try to get God off the hook?

All the NDE stories I heard were vision of heaven.

"We do know that Frightening Near Death Experiences (FNDEs) are rare, but it has been hard to determine the exact frequency at which they occur. Reports in the literature, of those having NDEs, suggest that the distressing experiences range from only 1% to 15% of that total." (Psychology today)

So, can we get some accounts of these and (aside from the 'you really want to avoid this, so convert right now' angle that we can guess is the topic here) do we also get the question: 'While these people were experiencing NDE Hell, did they also get the experience that it was all perfectly justified and God was in no way being nasty and these tortured souls put themselves there and none of them blamed God for it and it's all fine, fine fine', or is that - as i suggested - a cunning new 'get God off the hook' apologetic?

.....


despite myself, I'm getting interested. There are Pleasurable NDE's, where you meet all your relatives. Or So - Called Pleasurable NDE's

The 'Void' NDE's where you are told that none of this existed and neither did you (this is possibly the one that atheists get)

and the dNDE (distresing NDE) which may involve reliving your life, being jugged..I mean being judged, or being in hell - usually as an observer; rarely being in it. I saw No suggestion of the people involved making any comments that it was all perfectly Justified, God was in no way to be criticised or there was never any doubt that He was anything but Just, Good and Merciful and it was all Fine, fine, fine.

And i strongly suspect that - whether Derek knew there were FNDE's or just guessed there were, the Exoneration of God aspect of the NDEs was just added on.

I have studied NDE's for years and watched nearly every YouTube video on NDE's and here's my takeaway from my accumulated knowledge:


* Most important: ALL the hellish fire and torture NDE stories are from Christians--without exception.
* Atheists and religious people alike report pleasurable NDE's. The atheists say they NEVER saw anything resembling hell or a lake of fire or a devil figure or demons.
* There are as many different NDE experiences as there are people who experience them. Put another way, everybody who has one has their own version of what it was like but most of them follow a general pattern: a tunnel, a bright light opening into a beautiful pastoral scene with dead relatives and friends greeting them, some have a review of their life others don't.
* The "distressing" NDE's were not tortuous or anything. The distress comes mostly from not knowing what's going on and getting frightened.
* I recall one man saying, "I saw a figure at the top of a hill with his arms spread. It looked a lot like Jesus" and I thought, "How do you know what Jesus looked like since all we have are Renaissance painting of him?"
*Lots of propaganda mixed up in these things. Look up Maurice Rawlings, MD a crackpot fundamentalist cardiologist who wrote books on NDE's and hell and claims he was an atheist who converted to fundamentalism, except he grew up in the Bible Belt and traveled around telling people to accept Jesus or go to hell. He's dead now.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9_KnBoqhzM
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 10:46 AM
 
10,809 posts, read 2,775,574 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I have studied NDE's for years and watched nearly every YouTube video on NDE's and here's my takeaway from my accumulated knowledge:


* Most important: ALL the hellish fire and torture NDE stories are from Christians--without exception.
* Atheists and religious people alike report pleasurable NDE's. The atheists say they NEVER saw anything resembling hell or a lake of fire or a devil figure or demons.
* There are as many different NDE experiences as there are people who experience them. Put another way, everybody who has one has their own version of what it was like but most of them follow a general pattern: a tunnel, a bright light opening into a beautiful pastoral scene with dead relatives and friends greeting them, some have a review of their life others don't.
* The "distressing" NDE's were not tortuous or anything. The distress comes mostly from not knowing what's going on and getting frightened.
* I recall one man saying, "I saw a figure at the top of a hill with his arms spread. It looked a lot like Jesus" and I thought, "How do you know what Jesus looked like since all we have are Renaissance painting of him?"
*Lots of propaganda mixed up in these things. Look up Maurice Rawlings, MD a crackpot fundamentalist cardiologist who wrote books on NDE's and hell and claims he was an atheist who converted to fundamentalism, except he grew up in the Bible Belt and traveled around telling people to accept Jesus or go to hell. He's dead now.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9_KnBoqhzM
My friend that had one, was not a religious person when it happened to him, he wasnt an atheist, he just wasnt relgious at all, he did believe 'something' was responsible for our creation, but he did not believe it was the God of the bible/religion.


Strangely enough, after it happened to him, when he got out of the hospital, he started going to a christian church, this shocked everyone who knew him, we knew something truly happened to him when we saw some of the things he was doing, (started going to church, stopped cheating on his wife, stopped his shady money making schemes, etc).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,601 posts, read 12,230,499 times
Reputation: 16741
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
My friend that had one,...

Strangely enough, after it happened to him, when he got out of the hospital, he started going to a christian church, this shocked everyone who knew him, we knew something truly happened to him when we saw some of the things he was doing, (started going to church, stopped cheating on his wife, stopped his shady money making schemes, etc).
But STILL, TRANS says there's no proof of God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 05:22 PM
 
Location: NSW
2,759 posts, read 1,877,894 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I'm really reluctant to do this but are there any such NDE-stories that experience hell and claimed that it was all perfectly just and justified and fine, fine, fine, and perfectly good and God is not being nasty and he good and Just and it's fine, fine, fine, or is this just a a new apologetic to try to get God off the hook?

All the NDE stories I heard were vision of heaven.

"We do know that Frightening Near Death Experiences (FNDEs) are rare, but it has been hard to determine the exact frequency at which they occur. Reports in the literature, of those having NDEs, suggest that the distressing experiences range from only 1% to 15% of that total." (Psychology today)

So, can we get some accounts of these and (aside from the 'you really want to avoid this, so convert right now' angle that we can guess is the topic here) do we also get the question: 'While these people were experiencing NDE Hell, did they also get the experience that it was all perfectly justified and God was in no way being nasty and these tortured souls put themselves there and none of them blamed God for it and it's all fine, fine fine', or is that - as i suggested - a cunning new 'get God off the hook' apologetic?

.....


despite myself, I'm getting interested. There are Pleasurable NDE's, where you meet all your relatives. Or So - Called Pleasurable NDE's

The 'Void' NDE's where you are told that none of this existed and neither did you (this is possibly the one that atheists get)

and the dNDE (distresing NDE) which may involve reliving your life, being jugged..I mean being judged, or being in hell - usually as an observer; rarely being in it. I saw No suggestion of the people involved making any comments that it was all perfectly Justified, God was in no way to be criticised or there was never any doubt that He was anything but Just, Good and Merciful and it was all Fine, fine, fine.

And i strongly suspect that - whether Derek knew there were FNDE's or just guessed there were, the Exoneration of God aspect of the NDEs was just added on.
Yes, most of these unpleasant experiences, did not object to Hell in any way.
The majority accepted their fate, and were heading for Hell like lambs to the slaughter, without a peep of protest.
Those that simply saw Hell may have questioned why some were there, but never challenged God.
Nobody said "you've gotta be kidding God", or similar statements.
Most Christians today (those not into Annihilation) will also state that Hell is perfectly justified, and that because God is eternal, the separation from God too, must also be eternal.
Being in such a hopeless place and situation is most likely the reason they do not blame God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,336 posts, read 10,378,324 times
Reputation: 2621
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I often wonder where he is right now.
He's exactly where they put him!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 11:58 PM
 
4,435 posts, read 1,663,270 times
Reputation: 1548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
One of the things that many people cannot get their head around, is a punishment that lasts FOREVER.
What on earth could anyone do, to warrant such a punishment?
It really makes no sense, and is simply beyond comprehension.
Many people that have experienced Hell on the other side (through NDE's etc), have said that this was just, and the punishment for their sin, whatever that may be, was perfectly justified.
Is this just an extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome?
How could anyone not object to it?
If there is not a universal bridge, or an area of penance and purification, then God is building one hell of a big Hell. (no pun intended)
Why does your brain ignore or unable to see the flip side of the coin?
What on earth could anyone do to be rewarded with an eternal bliss in joy and happiness with no worries of any kind, FOREVER?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top