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Old 08-04-2019, 12:38 PM
 
40,455 posts, read 26,981,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I sometimes wonder why we are at odds so much, since we agree on so much.
I noticed that you even used an ANALOGY on another thread! I am getting to you.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:42 PM
 
Location: California USA
1,007 posts, read 642,949 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The claim that God has given humankind free will is derived from the observation that humans freely and routinely make choices that serve to direct the individual course of our lives. The claim that God has given humankind free will is based on the ASSUMPTION that God necessarily exists, and therefore our ability to make such choices is a gift from God. But you see, if no god exists than the ability of each of us to choose the course of our lives, at least within the framework of the conditions each of us was born into, IS A NATURAL CONDITION! Nowhere does the Bible promise free will.

Disagreements?
au contraire mon ami

"But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.-Joshua 24:15

You can spin it however you want but yes we have a choice

However all choices have consequences good and bad

And no the Bible doesn't teach you'll burn in hell eternally if your choice is unwise.

In fact God says he wont throw lightening bolts or make your life miserable if you reject him

"so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous." Matthew 5:45

But, if you believe in your heart in YOLO that just might happen for those that have firmly established in their hearts that is the case.

Choose wisely

Peace
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:43 AM
 
39,816 posts, read 11,135,711 times
Reputation: 5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I noticed that you even used an ANALOGY on another thread! I am getting to you.
I remember. And i used it as analogies ought to be used. And you are not 'getting to me' at all. I have got to you and that is why you keep this arach -like sniping.
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:52 AM
 
39,816 posts, read 11,135,711 times
Reputation: 5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
au contraire mon ami

"But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.-Joshua 24:15

You can spin it however you want but yes we have a choice

However all choices have consequences good and bad

And no the Bible doesn't teach you'll burn in hell eternally if your choice is unwise.

In fact God says he wont throw lightening bolts or make your life miserable if you reject him

"so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous." Matthew 5:45

But, if you believe in your heart in YOLO that just might happen for those that have firmly established in their hearts that is the case.

Choose wisely

Peace
Choosing wisely is choosing through reason, not through faith. It's wise even if one does accept the doctrine of hellthreat. If they don't, they are telling both Christian churches that they are wrong in their doctrines. And if there is no hellhreat than the religion has no stick and no carrot. People can then choose wisely, without feeling intimidated. It's why Europe is much more irreligious than it once was and America is going the same way. Fingers crossed.
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:55 AM
 
Location: Germany
5,373 posts, read 1,010,712 times
Reputation: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
au contraire mon ami

"But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.-Joshua 24:15

You can spin it however you want but yes we have a choice

However all choices have consequences good and bad
Then believe a circle has four corners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
And no the Bible doesn't teach you'll burn in hell eternally if your choice is unwise.
Except those who lived in Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,455 posts, read 10,433,176 times
Reputation: 2635
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
And no the Bible doesn't teach you'll burn in hell eternally if your choice is unwise.
In fact God says he wont throw lightening bolts or make your life miserable if you reject him

Really?

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 21:8
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

Matthew 18:8
"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.


Mark 9:47-48
"If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


Matthew 13:42
...and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 20:13-15
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:41
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;


So you are saying that none of the above is going to happen??
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:10 PM
 
105 posts, read 50,500 times
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The bible was written not by a single person in the course of a year but by many people over the course of many years over 2,000 years ago.

English was not even the language the bible was written in.

I think it is safe to say that any attempt to preach what the bible says or quote any versus from it is an interpretation.

That is why atheists exist. I'm not an atheist but I also have no idea how the bible is supposed to be properly read.
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,227 posts, read 10,639,053 times
Reputation: 20695
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02 View Post
...

That is why atheists exist. I'm not an atheist but I also have no idea how the bible is supposed to be properly read.
With a grain of salt? A boulder of salt?
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:49 PM
 
39,816 posts, read 11,135,711 times
Reputation: 5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02 View Post
The bible was written not by a single person in the course of a year but by many people over the course of many years over 2,000 years ago.

English was not even the language the bible was written in.

I think it is safe to say that any attempt to preach what the bible says or quote any versus from it is an interpretation.

That is why atheists exist. I'm not an atheist but I also have no idea how the bible is supposed to be properly read.
I find it isn't a bad start to read as it is wrote - in translation of course. If there are problems, then let the apologists explain them. If it's a matter of translation, look up the Hebrew or Greek. If it's a matter of interpretation, let them interpret it. If it's a question of metaphor of symbolism, let them explain it that way. The result has gradually been that the Bible loses credibility, mainly because 'symbolically' or 'metaphorically' true means not True at all and No amount of Interpretation will make a Flood that never happened mean anything other than it never happened.

We already saw the hopeless apologetic 'does it make any difference to the message?' You bet it does It means that it is worth nothing by virtue of being in the Bible. If the message has any merits at all, it is because it chimes in with a holistically -accepted humanist morality-message that doesn't need the bible.
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,810 posts, read 12,344,300 times
Reputation: 16832
I'm like a broken record...I know..but there are new people around.
I believe seeing is believing.
I tried this as if it was a fact: 'Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.' In Psalm 37.
I tried this: 'Be still and know that I am God.' In Psalm 46
Next, I thought if I'm going to follow what Jesus said, see him as my teacher, a master.
Well, I very well should do what he said, then...to a tee...like devotee at his feet, like a soldier taking orders...

Do it. 100%, 24/7.
I started for 2 weeks seeking the Kingdom of Heaven, first. After that, I combined many things that
rolled up into the same thing, with some things Paul said...
Focus on the things above and not the things on the earth.
Do not Worry
Be not afraid, fear not
Cast your cares
Give my burdens to him
Be anxious for nothing
Ask, believe and receive

Well, they all 'work'. My life completely changed, my old friends couldn't believe it...no more complaining, gossiping
about anything anymore...always happy and trusting in the Lord.
I gave all my burdens to God. What is there to ever worry about?
Jesus was a good instructor. And I was a good student.

I used any free will I had to practice following instructions...best thing I ever did!
It took controlling the mind when it wanted to fret or worry or be anxious about most anything...
being late, forgetting something, not having insurance, not being able to pay a bill easily, not wanting to
have to do something.
Now, I'm on auto-pilot...being carefree is the first thing I feel all the time...worry doesn't
come into my mind at all anymore.
And everything always works out perfectly.


But, I don't consider myself a Christian, just sayin, nor do I care if anyone else is.
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