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Old 07-30-2019, 12:46 PM
 
Location: USA
3,522 posts, read 1,278,258 times
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The claim that God has given humankind free will is derived from the observation that humans freely and routinely make choices that serve to direct the individual course of our lives. The claim that God has given humankind free will is based on the ASSUMPTION that God necessarily exists, and therefore our ability to make such choices is a gift from God. But you see, if no god exists than the ability of each of us to choose the course of our lives, at least within the framework of the conditions each of us was born into, IS A NATURAL CONDITION! Nowhere does the Bible promise free will.

Disagreements?
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:49 PM
 
6,086 posts, read 1,738,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The claim that God has given humankind free will is derived from the observation that humans freely and routinely make choices that serve to direct the individual course of our lives. The claim that God has given humankind free will is based on the ASSUMPTION that God necessarily exists, and therefore our ability to make such choices is a gift from God. But you see, if no god exists than the ability of each of us to choose the course of our lives, at least within the framework of the conditions each of us was born into, IS A NATURAL CONDITION! Nowhere does the Bible promise free will.

Disagreements?
You're correct, in that the Bible does not suggest that we have libertarian free will to choose or not choose him.
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:04 PM
 
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There are also those verses about being predestined for this or that. That doesn't sound like free will to me.
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:24 PM
 
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There is millions of people who chose to get the blessing of God through Christ and millions choose to ignore these blessing , as this is the free will from God ... Just as God watched and one third of His creations of Angels walked away from God to be eternally lost to God , and two thirds of the Holy Angels of God remain to lean on God , where then the demons of the flesh all rejected God and all demons are eternally rejected by God for their free will to do what they want ..... .... Where as for man, God gives the only option to turn to God through Jesus and receive His blessing are the free will
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:18 PM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
There is millions of people who chose to get the blessing of God through Christ and millions choose to ignore these blessing , as this is the free will from God ... Just as God watched and one third of His creations of Angels walked away from God to be eternally lost to God , and two thirds of the Holy Angels of God remain to lean on God , where then the demons of the flesh all rejected God and all demons are eternally rejected by God for their free will to do what they want ..... .... Where as for man, God gives the only option to turn to God through Jesus and receive His blessing are the free will
People freely make choices that direct the course of their lives. This is as obvious today as it was thousands of years ago. That some deity called God has granted this gift of free will to humankind is an unfounded assumption, which is itself based on an unfounded assumption (that such a deity exists). If no God exists, or has ever existed, then the ability to make choices IS A NATURAL CONDITION! No God is required.

Declaring an unfounded assumption to be true does not make that unfounded assumption true.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:40 PM
 
40,339 posts, read 26,896,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
People freely make choices that direct the course of their lives. This is as obvious today as it was thousands of years ago. That some deity called God has granted this gift of free will to humankind is an unfounded assumption, which is itself based on an unfounded assumption (that such a deity exists). If no God exists, or has ever existed, then the ability to make choices IS A NATURAL CONDITION! No God is required.
Replacing an ineffable concept (God) with an equally ineffable concept (Nature) does no justice to either logic or reason.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:50 PM
 
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Replacing an ineffable concept (God) with an equally ineffable concept (Nature) does no justice to either logic or reason.
The realization that everything which occurs does so as the result of natural forces at work has been the hallmark of modern science. Learning how to predict and utilize those natural forces has been the foundation of all modern technology.
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:00 PM
 
40,339 posts, read 26,896,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The realization that everything which occurs does so as the result of natural forces at work has been the hallmark of modern science. Learning how to predict and utilize those natural forces has been the foundation of all modern technology.
Agreed. But harnessing ineffable forces in no way identifies them any more than naming them God's Will, especially in a thread about Will.
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle
988 posts, read 216,994 times
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In the end, isn't free will just quantum mechanics flipping coins? In that case our will is being decided by a mysterious system we don't understand.
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,743 posts, read 2,899,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
There is millions of people who chose to get the blessing of God through Christ and millions choose to ignore these blessing , as this is the free will from God ... Just as God watched and one third of His creations of Angels walked away from God to be eternally lost to God , and two thirds of the Holy Angels of God remain to lean on God , where then the demons of the flesh all rejected God and all demons are eternally rejected by God for their free will to do what they want ..... .... Where as for man, God gives the only option to turn to God through Jesus and receive His blessing are the free will
Sometimes you like your bible quotes and sometimes not. Care to give us bible quotes all of the above?
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