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Old 08-06-2019, 04:27 PM
 
40,412 posts, read 26,927,749 times
Reputation: 6077

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
you choose your beliefs
based on the reasons you have for either saying YES i believe this or NO i reject this belief.
it's that simple

choices available
personal reasons for saying YES or NO
= your beliefs

no one except Mystic is asking anyone to believe something they don't believe.
When you can choose to believe something you do NOT currently believe, I will accept that belief as a choice. But It will mean you do not really believe it.
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:36 PM
 
13,149 posts, read 13,744,725 times
Reputation: 9197
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are so conflicted over the notion of free choice or free will that you deny that there are things you truly believe at your core that have nothing to do with your choices. You may not even know why you believe them so how that could be the result of choice is absurd. What you truly believe has nothing to do with your choices. Other beliefs can be choices because, if you are honest, you don't really believe them in your heart of hearts. They are not important enough.

that's why its good to identify and examine the beliefs we have.
"believe at your core" is still a belief
beliefs can be what we were told as a child or taught by teachers or
instilled in us by friends, mentors, loved ones
if we keep or hang onto a belief, that is a choice. if we reject a belief, that is a choice

based on your own personal reasons saying YES keep or NO reject.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-06-2019 at 04:52 PM..
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:51 PM
 
40,412 posts, read 26,927,749 times
Reputation: 6077
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
You can't CHOOSE to believe anything. You can choose to act on a belief. You can choose to do something. You can choose to go to church, but that has no effect on whether you believe what is being taught there. You believe what your mind tells you is true, regardless of what somebody tries to tell you.

I cannot choose to believe that Brussel sprouts taste good. Every fiber of my being knows that they are truly an abomination. It is absolutely impossible for me to choose to like Brussel sprouts.
I think some people who think beliefs are a choice do not know what a belief actually is. They confuse belief with choice because they want to claim credit for believing in their specific God as the path to their salvation, or whatever. When they consider it a choice, I question whether or not they actually believe.
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:59 PM
 
13,149 posts, read 13,744,725 times
Reputation: 9197
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
You can't CHOOSE to believe anything. You can choose to act on a belief. You can choose to do something. You can choose to go to church, but that has no effect on whether you believe what is being taught there. You believe what your mind tells you is true, regardless of what somebody tries to tell you.

I cannot choose to believe that brussel sprouts taste good. Every fiber of my being knows that they are truly an abomination. It is absolutely impossible for me to choose to like brussel sprouts.
having a choice does not mean you choose anything and everything.
you have personal reasons for choosing what you do. and for rejecting what you do.
ordering from a menu is a system of free choice.
but it is still you choosing what to order off the menu.

your personal reasons do NOT affect that there is a menu. [system of free choice]
your personal reasons do NOT affect what is on the menu. [food or beliefs available to you]
your personal reasons DO affect what you order from the menu.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:05 PM
Status: ":)" (set 11 days ago)
 
3,816 posts, read 2,065,425 times
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Could we be confusing beliefs and feelings? It seems like that is occurring. I can't understand how anyone can think you don't choose your beliefs. You're basically admitting you don't have control over yourself.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:19 PM
 
40,412 posts, read 26,927,749 times
Reputation: 6077
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I think some people who think beliefs are a choice do not know what a belief actually is. They confuse belief with choice because they want to claim credit for believing in their specific God as the path to their salvation, or whatever. When they consider it a choice, I question whether or not they actually believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
having a choice does not mean you choose anything and everything.
you have personal reasons for choosing what you do. and for rejecting what you do.
ordering from a menu is a system of free choice.
but it is still you choosing what to order off the menu.

your personal reasons do NOT affect that there is a menu. [system of free choice]
your personal reasons do NOT affect what is on the menu. [food or beliefs available to you]
your personal reasons DO affect what you order from the menu.
There is no menu to select a belief in God or not. You either do or do not believe. If you think it is a choice, I don't believe that you actually believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Could we be confusing beliefs and feelings? It seems like that is occurring. I can't understand how anyone can think you don't choose your beliefs. You're basically admitting you don't have control over yourself.
We control our choices. We do NOT control what we really believe. Choices are NOT beliefs.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:40 PM
Status: ":)" (set 11 days ago)
 
3,816 posts, read 2,065,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
We control our choices.

Exactly. So if you aren't willing to change your beliefs it's because you're choosing not to take the action of retraining your thoughts. Beliefs are formed. You are not born with them.




...and that's all I'm going to say about that, because I feel like you understand this clearly. Enjoy your evening.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:07 PM
 
5,242 posts, read 2,563,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Exactly. So if you aren't willing to change your beliefs it's because you're choosing not to take the action of retraining your thoughts. Beliefs are formed. You are not born with them.
...and that's all I'm going to say about that, because I feel like you understand this clearly. Enjoy your evening.
Over the many centuries there has been a blending, a mixing of the secular with the sacred.
The secular has been taught as being the sacred (Scripture) when it is Not Scripture.
The result is: that Christianity (Christendom) has been paganized with non-biblical paint.
A painted picture that has resulted in a blended picture that one can Not recognize or reconcile to biblical Christianity.
Rome for one, stole the ' concepts of Christ ' and twisted and changed them to the point that now faith becomes fraud.
Teachings that became so deeply embedded into people's minds that even when exposed people still insist on keeping the religious-myth mirage alive even though Not compatible with true or genuine 1st-century Christianity as Jesus taught.
Such deeply embedded teachings seem to be so very hard to erase and can cause people to be unwilling to change.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,087 posts, read 14,333,840 times
Reputation: 16255
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCaldude12 View Post
What happens after death is based solely on the person that died and their beliefs.
Beliefs can never violate the Laws of Physics.

The same thing happens to everyone. Their body is consumed as food by other organisms unless they die in a fire or are cremated.

No one has ever been reincarnated and no one has ever gone to Heaven or Hell, since those places don't even exist and they didn't exist until the Greeks imagined them up.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:57 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,263 posts, read 11,065,657 times
Reputation: 7468
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
You can't CHOOSE to believe anything. You can choose to act on a belief. You can choose to do something. You can choose to go to church, but that has no effect on whether you believe what is being taught there. You believe what your mind tells you is true, regardless of what somebody tries to tell you.

I cannot choose to believe that brussel sprouts taste good. Every fiber of my being knows that they are truly an abomination. It is absolutely impossible for me to choose to like brussel sprouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
having a choice does not mean you choose anything and everything.
you have personal reasons for choosing what you do. and for rejecting what you do.
ordering from a menu is a system of free choice.
but it is still you choosing what to order off the menu.

your personal reasons do NOT affect that there is a menu. [system of free choice]
your personal reasons do NOT affect what is on the menu. [food or beliefs available to you]
your personal reasons DO affect what you order from the menu.
Your response says nothing (not a single word) about belief. You are talking about choices, not beliefs.
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