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Old 08-06-2019, 07:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Your response says nothing (not a single word) about belief. You are talking about choices, not beliefs.
we choose our beliefs.
we choose the path of religion and spirituality that we follow.
we choose what food to order off the menu.

and we have personal reasons for making those choices.
when we believe something to be true (based on our own personal reasons, validation, perceptions, experience, criteria, what we value or hold dear) then it is a belief. those personal reasons determine the beliefs we choose, keep, edit, or reject.

and yes, post #44 does mention and is all about choosing beliefs
What happens after death is relative to the person that died

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-06-2019 at 07:46 PM..
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:48 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,263 posts, read 11,065,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
we choose our beliefs.
we choose the path of religion and spirituality that we follow.
we choose what food to order off the menu.

and we have personal reasons for making those choices.
when we believe something to be true (based on our own personal reasons, validation, perceptions, experience, criteria, what we value or hold dear) then it is a belief. those personal reasons determine the beliefs we have and whether we keep, edit or reject them.

and yes, post #44 does mention and is all about choosing beliefs
What happens after death is relative to the person that died
You're wrong about this.

You can indeed choose the religion and the path you follow, but that has absolutely nothing to do with choosing belief. Your belief may lead you to make a choice, but your choice is not the same thing as your underlying belief.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
You're wrong about this.

You can indeed choose the religion and the path you follow, but that has absolutely nothing to do with choosing belief. Your belief may lead you to make a choice, but your choice is not the same thing as your underlying belief.
a path of "religion and spirituality" is a belief system.
so choosing a path of "religion and spirituality" is choosing a belief system.


and people may change their beliefs over the course of their life time. they choose to change their beliefs for personal reasons. nobody forces them to do it. it is not imposed upon them from outside. they edit, change, revise, update their beliefs. that is a choice they make. nobody does it for them. nobody does it to them. if an old belief is no longer valid for them for whatever reason they change it. they set down their old "underlying belief" and they pick up a new belief.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-06-2019 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:21 PM
 
11,341 posts, read 11,344,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Just because someone gets a message from a spirit doesn't mean it's divine. Most religions do not exist to get you closer to God. You don't know who the church elders are actually praying to. There are many spirits wandering around waiting for willing hosts.

The Golden Age of Spiritualism lasted from 1850 to 1920 and produced some 1000+ books on the afterlife. Nearly all are in agreement with each other with minor variations. 7 Planes with most people landing on the 3rd Plane called Summerland after death and advancing to perfection to the 7th where God dwells. "Hell" being plane 1 and dim and shabby. I don't necessarily take it all as gospel, but I think it's a hell of a lot more interesting than trash like Revelation. Here's a list of the most prominent spiritualist books from the era with links toward the bottom of the list.



https://mediumshipandlifeafterdeath....e-to-download/
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:28 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,263 posts, read 11,065,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
a path of "religion and spirituality" is a belief system.
so choosing a path of "religion and spirituality" is choosing a belief system.


and people may change their beliefs over the course of their life time. they choose to change their beliefs for personal reasons. nobody forces them to do it. it is not imposed upon them from outside. they edit, change, revise, update their beliefs. that is a choice they make. nobody does it for them. nobody does it to them.
I can't seem to get through your head.

You can follow the religion whether you believe it or not. You can choose the religion. You cannot choose the belief.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:31 PM
 
13,149 posts, read 13,744,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
I can't seem to get through your head.

You can follow the religion whether you believe it or not. You can choose the religion. You cannot choose the belief.
so who then is doing your thinking for you?
when someone is an atheist and then decides to believe in God who is choosing that belief?
when someone was religious and then decides to become an atheist, who is choosing that belief for them?
when someone changes their beliefs, if they are not choosing what to believe, who is choosing for them?
if you cannot choose the belief, then how can so many people change their beliefs over the course of their life?

its like someone saying they are not responsible for what they say. or what they do. or how they act.
who then is doing it? we are responsible for our beliefs in the same way we are responsible for what we say and what we do.
how can someone not take ownership of that?


we can look at that as a belief in itself.
one belief is "we choose our beliefs based on personal reasons. we change our beliefs when they are no longer true for us."
another belief is "we have no choice about what to believe. beliefs just are. you can't change them. they just happen. "

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-06-2019 at 08:41 PM..
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:42 PM
Status: ":)" (set 11 days ago)
 
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I can't tell if some people are being serious of if they just want to debate, but if they're serious then this is very enlightening. Imagine the number of people out there with power over others who think they aren't in control of their own thoughts. Yikes.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:36 PM
 
40,412 posts, read 26,927,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Could we be confusing beliefs and feelings? It seems like that is occurring. I can't understand how anyone can think you don't choose your beliefs. You're basically admitting you don't have control over yourself.
Nonsense. We make choices for myriad reasons none of which necessarily involve our deeply held beliefs. We may not even know what the reasons are for those deeply held beliefs so to assert that they are choices is preposterous. We control the choices we are aware of as choices. Our deeply held beliefs (which are the only REAL beliefs) are not part of that choice paradigm. Those who operate thinking that their claimed beliefs are choices are NOT referring to actual deeply held beliefs and there can be many reasons for those superficial so-called beliefs.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:40 PM
 
40,412 posts, read 26,927,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
I can't tell if some people are being serious of if they just want to debate, but if they're serious then this is very enlightening. Imagine the number of people out there with power over others who think they aren't in control of their own thoughts. Yikes.
This is a preposterous straw man. Of course, we are in control of our thoughts. That has nothing to do with what we deeply and sincerely believe. What we claim to believe or not believe can be legion, but our actual deeply held beliefs can have little to do with the reasons for our overtly claimed choices.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:53 PM
 
13,149 posts, read 13,744,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Nonsense. We make choices for myriad reasons none of which necessarily involve our deeply held beliefs. We may not even know what the reasons are for those deeply held beliefs so to assert that they are choices is preposterous. We control the choices we are aware of as choices. Our deeply held beliefs (which are the only REAL beliefs) are not part of that choice paradigm. Those who operate thinking that their claimed beliefs are choices are NOT referring to actual deeply held beliefs and there can be many reasons for those superficial so-called beliefs.
We may not even know what the reasons are for those deeply held beliefs
a person with self-awareness does

We control the choices we are aware of as choices.
and now people are aware that beliefs are a choice

actual deeply held beliefs
you have shared that you were atheist for much of your life. and that now you believe in God. so along the way you changed your mind and changed your beliefs. are you saying when you were an atheist it was superficial and not deeply held, that it was claimed but you were not really an atheist?

why can't people just change their mind? as they gain more information, more knowledge, more growth, more experience, more wisdom, more insight, more intuition, more awareness. people grow and change. so do their beliefs.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-06-2019 at 11:06 PM..
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