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Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM
 
13,034 posts, read 3,309,927 times
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As I scan many of the threads and comments in this forum focused on a topic of interest to me for a long time, no matter which threads and comments I read, I notice the same thing over and over...

Many of the same people attempting over and over to address the very same differences about what we believe, in all the same ways, and always to the same end. I'm so tempted to just go to the end of each thread and simply link to these two threads with one simple question...

The Psychology of Religion.

Why We Believe What We Do...

Why do you bother?

Whether you answer here or in any of the two above threads, I am curious your reason(s) given what I think we can all see is the futility of it all. I also ask, because more often than not I find myself asking the same question of myself. Why do I bother? Maybe someone can provide a better answer than I have been able to come up with myself, because with time it seems more and more to me the answer is there is no good reason to bother.

Ironic given how important our ultimate universal truth really is for all concerned...
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Old Yesterday, 11:54 AM
 
13,157 posts, read 13,750,128 times
Reputation: 9202
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
As I scan many of the threads and comments in this forum focused on a topic of interest to me for a long time, no matter which threads and comments I read, I notice the same thing over and over...
Many of the same people attempting over and over to address the very same differences about what we believe, in all the same ways, and always to the same end. I'm so tempted to just go to the end of each thread and simply link to these two threads with one simple question...
The Psychology of Religion.
Why We Believe What We Do...

Why do you bother?
Whether you answer here or in any of the two above threads, I am curious your reason(s) given what I think we can all see is the futility of it all. I also ask, because more often than not I find myself asking the same question of myself. Why do I bother? Maybe someone can provide a better answer than I have been able to come up with myself, because with time it seems more and more to me the answer is there is no good reason to bother.

Ironic given how important our ultimate universal truth really is for all concerned...
what makes you think there even is such a thing as "ultimate universal truth" ?
and how can you possibly know or determine what is important for anyone else, much less what is important for everyone.

would you deign to claim there is ultimate universal music for all concerned? ultimate universal art for all concerned? ultimate universal food for all concerned?

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; Yesterday at 12:23 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,042 posts, read 10,589,804 times
Reputation: 20633
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
As I scan many of the threads and comments in this forum focused on a topic of interest to me for a long time, no matter which threads and comments I read, I notice the same thing over and over...

Many of the same people attempting over and over to address the very same differences about what we believe, in all the same ways, and always to the same end. I'm so tempted to just go to the end of each thread and simply link to these two threads with one simple question...

The Psychology of Religion.

Why We Believe What We Do...

Why do you bother?

Whether you answer here or in any of the two above threads, I am curious your reason(s) given what I think we can all see is the futility of it all. I also ask, because more often than not I find myself asking the same question of myself. Why do I bother? Maybe someone can provide a better answer than I have been able to come up with myself, because with time it seems more and more to me the answer is there is no good reason to bother.

Ironic given how important our ultimate universal truth really is for all concerned...
I think that Tzap's question in post #2 is a very good one. I'd like to hear the answer.

But to your post, here is a quick summary that applies to me:

1. Christians don't own this country, and I for one will stand up and say that they need to be put in their place one little post at a time. They have every right that I have, but no more rights than I have.

2. Christians on this forum seem to always want to speak up and tell us "the truth". Well, I'll argue that point...often. There's is not the only religion out there, and it deserves no more respect than any other religion.

3. Believe it or not, as I wade through posts by some of the top...or should I say bottom...posters here, I learn things. It's not usually what they want me to learn. But I learn. And I assume others learn from our atheist posts, as well. Drip, drip, drip...one little post at a time.
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Old Yesterday, 12:24 PM
 
13,034 posts, read 3,309,927 times
Reputation: 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
why do you think there even is such as thing as "ultimate universal truth" ?
and how can you determine what is "important for all" ?
You are one of the names very commonly found in these threads. Accordingly, I ask why you bother, but you answer my question with other questions...

Are you suggesting there is no ultimate universal truth? Or that the truth isn't important for all concerned?

Not sure I understand, but say for example we are talking about becoming very sick to the point of hospitalization. Don't most people feel it important to know the truth about why they are ill? And can't we all agree there is a universal truth in terms of cause whether we all agree what it is or not? In a similar way, is it not important to know how best to address our challenges in life, say with religion or faith? Which one or none at all?

Not only important in terms of how we live our lives but how we treat others too, thus "important for all." Affecting all of us one way or another in any case...
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Old Yesterday, 12:30 PM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
26,086 posts, read 13,562,425 times
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I bother because of posters like mordant, Pleroo, thrillobyte, pcamps, Northsouth and others who have shed the shackles of fundie-think and become better, happier, more fulfilled people because of it. Many of them credit message boards in general and this one in particular for helping them see the light.
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Old Yesterday, 12:33 PM
 
13,034 posts, read 3,309,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think that Tzap's question in post #2 is a very good one. I'd like to hear the answer.

But to your post, here is a quick summary that applies to me:

1. Christians don't own this country, and I for one will stand up and say that they need to be put in their place one little post at a time. They have every right that I have, but no more rights than I have.

2. Christians on this forum seem to always want to speak up and tell us "the truth". Well, I'll argue that point...often. There's is not the only religion out there, and it deserves no more respect than any other religion.

3. Believe it or not, as I wade through posts by some of the top...or should I say bottom...posters here, I learn things. It's not usually what they want me to learn. But I learn. And I assume others learn from our atheist posts, as well. Drip, drip, drip...one little post at a time.
Learning is something I have considered in terms of why bother with this forum, because there is no doubt sometimes people do provide information worth considering and/or knowing, but one really doesn't need to comment to get that sort of information and it's probably far more time efficient to learn about the same things by other means. No doubt I learn far more just following the news in the morning than I do when after I'm done with that I bother with this forum.

I've even considered the "drip, drip, drip" notion about promoting what I think is right over wrong, truth over nonsense, but all evidence seems to point in the direction of what is ultimately summed up in the two other threads I reference in my first comment. Your name is another commonly encountered in these threads and try as you might, I don't see your "drip" doing any better than any other when it comes to evidence that anyone changes their mind about much along these lines in the slightest.

Perhaps if you can point to any evidence beyond your hopeful wishes, we can better measure the truth of what you believe, but of course that's impossible. Much like getting people to agree about our universal truth despite what even in some cases is obvious...
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Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM
 
13,034 posts, read 3,309,927 times
Reputation: 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I bother because of posters like mordant, Pleroo, thrillobyte, pcamps, Northsouth and others who have shed the shackles of fundie-think and become better, happier, more fulfilled people because of it. Many of them credit message boards in general and this one in particular for helping them see the light.
Your name is another I well recognize but not so much the others you mention, so maybe I've just not noticed when any such "shackles" about anything have been "shed" thanks to anyone's efforts in this forum. Nice to think such a thing is possible but I have my Cement Theory that tends to prove the exchange of facts, reason and logic to establish truth take a far back seat to ego, bias and ignorance once we get past our earlier more impressionable years. Mostly our opinions are "cemented" by the time we get past our twenties...
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Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 1,758,001 times
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I am not sure I understand what the question is in your post, but I will answer the thread question, why bother.

I am new to this particular forum and I am very interested in spirituality, not so much in religion.
I always find that the best answers to my metaphysical questions, or any questions for that matter, come from my own writing. Something about putting words down on paper brings clarity to not only thought, but to even what the question is.
It makes me believe we know the answers, they are within us. It is that we don't know what we know and also what we don't know.
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Old Yesterday, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Riding a rock floating through space
2,027 posts, read 590,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Your name is another I well recognize but not so much the others you mention, so maybe I've just not noticed when any such "shackles" about anything have been "shed" thanks to anyone's efforts in this forum. Nice to think such a thing is possible but I have my Cement Theory that tends to prove the exchange of facts, reason and logic to establish truth take a far back seat to ego, bias and ignorance once we get past our earlier more impressionable years. Mostly our opinions are "cemented" by the time we get past our twenties...
Speak for yourself, a free thinking person continues to reevaluate questions as important as why am I here and where am I going after I die?
When I was in my 20s I was athiest because my parents and most of my family were athiests. Through my own thinking processes over the decades my thoughts have evolved to reject pure athiesm but also not believe the christian doctrine either, and lately I've been leaning the other way towards athiesm again. I'm always looking for proof and what is the most likely scenario of my existence, and get a lot out of this subforum even though I don't post much. So to answer your question "why bother?" I think you are right concerning those stuck in the mud with the brainwashing they recieved as children and never will let go of. For those who are open minded and search for truth rather than what they want to believe, I say keep thoughts coming.
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Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM
 
13,034 posts, read 3,309,927 times
Reputation: 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I am not sure I understand what the question is in your post, but I will answer the thread question, why bother.

I am new to this particular forum and I am very interested in spirituality, not so much in religion.
I always find that the best answers to my metaphysical questions, or any questions for that matter, come from my own writing. Something about putting words down on paper brings clarity to not only thought, but to even what the question is.
It makes me believe we know the answers, they are within us. It is that we don't know what we know and also what we don't know.
I'm not sure both questions are much different, but either way you provide an answer I'm not sure I've seen explained before. Thanks. I've seen your name before too. You explain you are "new" to this forum, but obviously you have been commenting in many threads since 2008. I was more focused on the general exchange of opinion that goes on in all these threads.

If I understand you correctly then, in this particular forum anyway, you find the best answers from reading your own writing? If I understand correctly, I'm not sure this forum serves you any better than your own personal journal. I will also admit some curiosity about the best answers to your metaphysical questions, but I suspect you too are beyond objectively evaluating how true those answers may be...
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