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Old 08-21-2019, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,696 posts, read 10,770,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
Billions of people including government workers have reported seeing spirits & ghosts etc etc etc. We were not there so we cannot say the sightings were false. It's the same with The Bible stories. We weren't there so we can't say they are false. It's like saying The Holocaust didn't happen.
You seem to have a rather outdated knowledge of the Shroud Of Turin.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
7,099 posts, read 3,869,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post

I will even go first. The core of Christian belief rests on the claim that Jesus died, was resurrected from the dead on the third day, and bodily rose up into the sky, disappearing into the clouds. Most Christians however would agree that the story of Santa's team of flying reindeer is insupportable, because it makes assertions that are contradicted by all common observation, common experience and common sense. The story of a flying reanimated corpse ALSO contradicts all common observation, common experience and common sense. What case is there to be made, outside of blind faith and abject gullibility, that the story of the flying reanimated corpse of Jesus is more believable than the story of Santa's team of flying reindeer?
I wonder how many Christians actually do believe it?
I wonder if actually, they have never really thought about it too hard, and just accepted it.
And if they did stop to think about the impossibility of
a. Being raised from the dead and
b. Rising up into the sky,
they would maybe put it down to just being a metaphor or allegory?

I'll be honest, and at the risk if digressing, I'm not sure what the core of Christian belief is these days.
Sorry if I'm wide of the mark in answering your question.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,696 posts, read 10,770,486 times
Reputation: 20790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
I wonder how many Christians actually do believe it?
I wonder if actually, they have never really thought about it too hard, and just accepted it.
And if they did stop to think about the impossibility of
a. Being raised from the dead and
b. Rising up into the sky,
they would maybe put it down to just being a metaphor or allegory?

I'll be honest, and at the risk if digressing, I'm not sure what the core of Christian belief is these days.
Sorry if I'm wide of the mark in answering your question.
Let's put it this way, I don't see very much New Testament christianity on the part of millions of christians. I don't see how you reconcile New Testament christianity with who the religious right and religious right-of-center overwhelmingly voted for for president. Or their support for guns or white nationalism.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Germany
5,447 posts, read 1,039,124 times
Reputation: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
Billions of people including government workers have reported seeing spirits & ghosts etc etc etc. We were not there so we cannot say the sightings were false. It's the same with The Bible stories. We weren't there so we can't say they are false.
So you can not say they were true, neither.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
It's like saying The Holocaust didn't happen.
So having evidence is the same as not having evidence?
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
7,099 posts, read 3,869,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Let's put it this way, I don't see very much New Testament christianity on the part of millions of christians. I don't see how you reconcile New Testament christianity with who the religious right and religious right-of-center overwhelmingly voted for for president. Or their support for guns or white nationalism.
Exactly my thoughts.
In the last 3 years, the Christian right seem to represent anything but what was traditionally thought of as 'Christian'.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:00 AM
 
132 posts, read 11,842 times
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I've seen youtube videos where God, Angels, Spirits, Ghosts etc were caught on camera quite clearly. Being a skeptic means you have your head stuck up a dark place that's all. Still it is dangerous to be overly gullible because that's how cults are formed & people get hurt. It's best to take every report the same as a news report 'that most likely has the reporters' spin melded into it.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Germany
5,447 posts, read 1,039,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
I've seen youtube videos where God, Angels, Spirits, Ghosts etc were caught on camera quite clearly.
I can make those videos too.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:25 AM
 
132 posts, read 11,842 times
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God has told me the future ten thousand times & it always comes true. Impossible things that I would never in a million years imagine could happen 'do happen exactly as God tells me they will. So God has proven Himself to me myriad times. There are billions of reports of people meeting Angels of God & Spirits etc. It is easy to mock them if you were not there & have no experience in such things.

Also some people choose to be blind even though they know better. They see material value in being blind to spiritual matters.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:07 PM
 
Location: USA
3,741 posts, read 1,326,546 times
Reputation: 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post


Billions of people including government workers have reported seeing spirits & ghosts etc etc etc. We were not there so we cannot say the sightings were false. It's the same with The Bible stories. We weren't there so we can't say they are false. Moderator cut: Reference to Holocaust denial removed.
Wikipedia
Shroud of Turin
The Shroud of Turin, also called the Turin Shroud (Italian: Sindone di Torino, Sacra Sindone [ˈsaːkra ˈsindone] or Santa Sindone), is a length of linen cloth bearing the negative image of a man. Some believe the image depicts Jesus of Nazareth and the fabric is the burial shroud in which he was wrapped after crucifixion. Historical and scientific evidence points to it being a medieval creation. It is first securely attested in 1390, when a local bishop wrote that the shroud was a forgery and that an unnamed artist had confessed; radiocarbon dating of a sample of the fabric is consistent with this date.

Material chemical analysis

Radiocarbon dating
After years of discussion, the Holy See permitted radiocarbon dating on portions of a swatch taken from a corner of the shroud. Independent tests in 1988 at the University of Oxford, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology concluded with 95% confidence that the shroud material dated to 1260–1390 AD. This 13th- to 14th-century dating is much too recent for the shroud to have been associated with Jesus of Nazareth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:19 PM
 
Location: USA
3,741 posts, read 1,326,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
I've seen youtube videos where God, Angels, Spirits, Ghosts etc were caught on camera quite clearly. Being a skeptic means you have your head stuck up a dark place that's all. Still it is dangerous to be overly gullible because that's how cults are formed & people get hurt. It's best to take every report the same as a news report 'that most likely has the reporters' spin melded into it.
There is no better audience for a magician than gullible believers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnkpU27uTp0
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