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Old 08-21-2019, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
7,099 posts, read 3,869,989 times
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Sorry, is it just me or has this thread gone totally rogue already?

I thought we were discussing explanations for Jesus resurrection and flight mode?
Maybe I missed the point? Are we just discussing whatever comes to mind?

Last edited by Cruithne; 08-21-2019 at 01:30 PM..
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
57,186 posts, read 55,440,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
I wonder how many Christians actually do believe it?
I wonder if actually, they have never really thought about it too hard, and just accepted it.
And if they did stop to think about the impossibility of
a. Being raised from the dead and
b. Rising up into the sky,
they would maybe put it down to just being a metaphor or allegory?

I'll be honest, and at the risk if digressing, I'm not sure what the core of Christian belief is these days.
Sorry if I'm wide of the mark in answering your question.
The answer is that there is not "one core". Many Christians do think that about the resurrection and other Biblical "impossibilities". Not the fundamentalists/Bible literalists, of course.

I've posted this before, but a woman who was a deacon in my church once and who remains a friend of mine said that if you proved to her tomorrow beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jesus never existed, it would not change the core of her faith. By the way, her husband is a Brit-born atheist Jew (name is Christopher, which should give you a clue about just how devout his Jewish parents must have been ) and he attended the church occasionally while she was in service there. We all really like him, and he was welcome there.

It is the difference between a church that functions on "Right Belief" and one that looks for meaning that can be applied to real life, with "whether it actually happened" not being the main focus. For example, during the time I took the theological study course for laity put out by the Episcopal seminary, in the New Testament year, we discussed the gospels. In the story of the loaves and fishes, an impossibility wherein a small amount of food supposedly fed thousands, one participant said that she always read that story as a metaphor for sharing love and compassion. One passes compassion to another, who passes it to another, and it grows and "feeds" far more than seemed possible at the beginning through the actions of many that began with a few. Her take gives the story a deeper meaning it didn't have when it was presented as just a miracle/magic trick.
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Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 08-22-2019 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:29 PM
 
6,387 posts, read 1,795,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Since this IS a moderated forum, challenge accepted. This must be an actual debate however, and not a battle of dueling videos. While videos are useful in supporting an argument, (when one is ACTUALLY provided), simply posting videos without comment is not a debate.

Wikipedia
Debate
Debate is a process that involves formal discussion on a particular topic. In a debate, opposing arguments are put forward to argue for opposing viewpoints. Debate occurs in public meetings, academic institutions, and legislative assemblies. It is a formal type of discussion, often with a moderator and an audience, in addition to the debate participants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate

I will even go first. The core of Christian belief rests on the claim that Jesus died, was resurrected from the dead on the third day, and bodily rose up into the sky, disappearing into the clouds. Most Christians however would agree that the story of Santa's team of flying reindeer is insupportable, because it makes assertions that are contradicted by all common observation, common experience and common sense. The story of a flying reanimated corpse ALSO contradicts all common observation, common experience and common sense. What case is there to be made, outside of blind faith and abject gullibility, that the story of the flying reanimated corpse of Jesus is more believable than the story of Santa's team of flying reindeer?

This debate us specifically being offered to Iwasmadenew, but all interested parties are offered the opportunity to join in and participate. All lines of discussion should be freely explored. No subject that applies to the debate over the efficacy of belief and nonbelief should be considered off limits, within CD TOS limits.
Just a note, but you'd endear yourself a bit more to the audience if you did not engage in strawman arguments and misrepresentations. You might also have more success if you narrow it down to a particular item instead of attacking the entire faith in one fell swoop, then challenging people to provide proof for it.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:31 PM
 
132 posts, read 11,842 times
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wikipedia is open to anyone editing it. Any fool can go there & change the facts. It is zero proof of anything
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:47 PM
 
132 posts, read 11,842 times
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Basically millions of people experience miracles & encounters & if you choose to believe all those people are liars then you are just a negative person. Like a terrorist who through wrongful thinking & ideals sees only evil in our societies & overlooks all the goodness. No matter how much good society does the terrorists still want to destroy it because they have negative minds. It is the same with the critics here & at every forum. They only have the desire to destroy & harm truth wherever it manifests. They go into a savage frenzy of evil mocking & abuse & they all join in with the kill. They are abominations & the reason we all have to keep faith in God & goodness, & press on regardless of these savages & cretins who think they are intelligent.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:53 PM
Status: "A tad bilious." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
26,301 posts, read 13,689,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
Basically millions of people experience miracles & encounters & if you choose to believe all those people are liars then you are just a negative person. Like a terrorist who through wrongful thinking & ideals sees only evil in our societies & overlooks all the goodness. No matter how much good society does the terrorists still want to destroy it because they have negative minds. It is the same with the critics here & at every forum. They only have the desire to destroy & harm truth wherever it manifests. They go into a savage frenzy of evil mocking & abuse & they all join in with the kill. They are abominations & the reason we all have to keep faith in God & goodness, & press on regardless of these savages & cretins who think they are intelligent.
I hope you're young.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,997 posts, read 12,447,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
--The core of Christian belief rests on the claim that Jesus died, was resurrected from the dead on the third day, and bodily rose up into the sky, disappearing into the clouds.
-What case is there to be made, outside of blind faith and abject gullibility, that the story of the flying reanimated corpse of Jesus is more believable than the story of Santa's team of flying reindeer?

-This debate us specifically being offered to Iwasmadenew, but all interested parties are offered the opportunity to join in and participate. All lines of discussion should be freely explored.
No subject that applies to the debate over the efficacy of belief and nonbelief should be considered off limits, within CD TOS limits.
I don't think there is a case.
Just because many people say they saw Jesus do extraordinary things might mean something, that Santa doesn't have...but
since the Bible is full of pretty wild unbelievable things (Jonah, the Ark w/ 2 of everything, turning someone into a pillar of salt..)What else would be said would be equally hard to believe.

And this is coming from someone who does believe Jesus existed, still does and on and on...
I could debate no one. I could tell you why I believe Jesus existed...but it means absolutely nothing to
anyone, but me and maybe a friend that trusts me.
You won the debate already, imo, Tired.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:16 PM
 
Location: USA
3,741 posts, read 1,326,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Just a note, but you'd endear yourself a bit more to the audience if you did not engage in strawman arguments and misrepresentations. You might also have more success if you narrow it down to a particular item instead of attacking the entire faith in one fell swoop, then challenging people to provide proof for it.
Strawman arguments and misrepresentations should be fairly easy to dispel. Please proceed.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,640 posts, read 5,605,470 times
Reputation: 4115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
Basically millions of people experience miracles & encounters & if you choose to believe all those people are liars then you are just a negative person. Like a terrorist who through wrongful thinking & ideals sees only evil in our societies & overlooks all the goodness. No matter how much good society does the terrorists still want to destroy it because they have negative minds. It is the same with the critics here & at every forum. They only have the desire to destroy & harm truth wherever it manifests. They go into a savage frenzy of evil mocking & abuse & they all join in with the kill. They are abominations & the reason we all have to keep faith in God & goodness, & press on regardless of these savages & cretins who think they are intelligent.
Because someone has a belief system different from yours, or no belief at all, they are abominations?

“Imperfection is the prerequisite for grace. Light only gets in through the cracks.”
― Philip Yancey

I was a believer most likely before you were born. And i’ve studied Scripture scholastically at a Southern Baptist college. The lack of faith in no way diminishes a critic into an abomination. In fact no person is an abomination to Jesus. Being a critic turns him or her into the most desirable of people in God’s eyes. The only people Jesus found to be disgusting were hypocritical “Bible believers” such as the Pharisees who used Scripture to bludgeon others.

Let me quote some Scripture that you will instantaneously understand.

“Get thee behind me, Satan.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,696 posts, read 10,770,486 times
Reputation: 20790
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Just a note, but you'd endear yourself a bit more to the audience if you did not engage in strawman arguments and misrepresentations. You might also have more success if you narrow it down to a particular item instead of attacking the entire faith in one fell swoop, then challenging people to provide proof for it.
There's no way to "endear" yourself to the audience here because we're all over the place on belief.
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