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Ah, but I wasn't referring to anybody being able to or even 'sense' it, just that it exists.
As always, when it comes to something scientific, I don't mind at all being shown that I didn't know what I was talking about.
In any event, your analogy does not hold because we CAN in fact "see" infrared, X-Rays, and so forth. And that comes not from religion, but from applied science (technology). The mere fact that we're AWARE of the full spectrum, we owe to science. We can in fact record and assess throughout the EM spectrum, and have done so. It is ironic to me, that the knowledge that unaided human eyes only see a tiny sliver of a vast spectrum, is knowledge that did not come to us from religion, and yet is being appropriated to argue in favor of it.
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No, you can not.
Reason being is simple. To see x-ray you have to have organ of sense, capable of its direct perception. You do not.
What you then do, you create an apparatus, that translates perception of an x-ray into something that can be perceived by a normal human eye and interpreted by a normal human mind.
Logically, you see and comprehend only interpretation of what a machine provided for you.
that interpretation, in addition, being fouled by ones preconceptions, education, physical and mental limitations, pressure from the outside (you have your grant. It will be extended ONLY if you produce certain results), acceptance by "scientific society" and so on and so on. Heck, by what food you had or have during experiment, as physiology influences mental processes.
At the least, results will be an opinion(originally faulty, as it is based in interpretation of objective data, not the data itself), at the worst - absolute lie to fit into certain parameters over-imposed onto researcher.
What we had plenty of happening. As example, from geocentric system and flat Earth, to solar centric system and spherical Earth and now back to flat Earth and solar system not even closely being to solar centric but, moving in complex spiral through the universe, with planets trailing behind the son in a spiral manner. What, actually, it a perfect fact.
when technology "catches up" and advances beyond its current limitations
the larger field will be recognized.
Perhaps. But what that Larger Field will be like is unknown. And certainly cannot be cited as evidence or support for anything claimed on Faith (Or Inspiration, some might call it) now.
Perhaps. But what that Larger Field will be like is unknown. And certainly cannot be cited as evidence or support for anything claimed on Faith (Or Inspiration, some might call it) now.
it has nothing to do with "faith" or "inspiration"
we are talking about the human being's ability and capacity to discern exceeding that which science and technology can at the current time validate or verify.
it has nothing to do with "faith" or "inspiration"
we are talking about the human being's ability and capacity to discern exceeding that which science and technology can at the current time validate or verify.
When I post here I don't usually see it as an adversarial position.
I get the feeling you do when you are talking with people who believe. I post to share. Those who like what I share, great maybe we will have a conversation.
I don't see us proselityzing...just sharing, yes. I can't even spell it.
It is not valid to disparage what we do know simply because of what we don't. We still know what is currently knowable. The rest we do not draw conclusions concerning, until there is data to support those conclusions.
In any event, your analogy does not hold because we CAN in fact "see" infrared, X-Rays, and so forth. And that comes not from religion, but from applied science (technology). The mere fact that we're AWARE of the full spectrum, we owe to science. We can in fact record and assess throughout the EM spectrum, and have done so. It is ironic to me, that the knowledge that unaided human eyes only see a tiny sliver of a vast spectrum, is knowledge that did not come to us from religion, and yet is being appropriated to argue in favor of it.
Now, part of what you are really arguing for, and I agree with you, is epistemological humility. Every generation of people thinks that it has exhausted what there is to learn, invent, or innovate. Some idiot famously said a little over a century ago that patents were no longer needed as there was nothing else to invent. This was before sound movies, television, digital computers, space travel, and a whole raft of other stuff. Some will say this was hubris and some will say it was a failure of imagination. Either way, it was a dumb observation.
Still, all that we have learned since then points away from, rather than toward, supernatural beings and realms as a necessary or useful explanation for anything.
Of course; Regarding Real Faith, I cannot logically explain or describe to everybody what the beautiful and amazing Voice of God exactly sounded like, or what the Divine Presence of the Holy Spirit Felt like adequately enough, anymore than I can explain the taste of water or the sight and feel of the air to you, unless you have experienced it for yourselves. What I can logically and reasonably prove is the validity of what was discussed afterward as it pertained to my own personal life, individually, but not to everybody else's. This is what may cause a lot of division between Science and the various Religious Faiths. There are also indeed many necessary Religious experiences and healing's that have always happened that have defied logic and reason, and cannot be ignored. The evidence of what others have experienced and recorded has always been very important to believers, and for those who need to search for their own experiences with their Creator, Source, God. Aside from various visitations and miracles performed by Mary and Saints, The Holy Bible is the only book that records God personally interacting with huge populations of people, all together, experiencing the same things, which of course, still defy reason and logic, because we are dealing with a God that is beyond our reason and logic, who sometimes, not all the time, wants us to also defy reason and logic, to search for, walk by faith, and to know on a more personal level also. More so during this Age Of Grace, I think.
Last edited by glenninindy; 08-28-2019 at 05:17 AM..
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