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Old Yesterday, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
22,017 posts, read 22,322,723 times
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I'm curious... If you were raised in a religion and didn't believe in it, felt the leadership was corrupt and that it did more to harm its members than it did to help them, would you stay or leave? If you'd choose to stay, why? Is social acceptance so important to you that you'd stick around at all costs, or would you at some point say, "Enough! I have enough integrity to stand up for what I truly believe and move on!"?
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Old Yesterday, 09:31 PM
 
Location: southern california
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The effectiveness of its theology not its followers would be my judgement tool
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Old Yesterday, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
The effectiveness of its theology not its followers would be my judgement tool
Very good point. And what, as you see it, makes certain theologies "effective"?
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 PM
 
Location: southern california
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Very good point. And what, as you see it, makes certain theologies "effective"?
Learning and surviving
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Old Yesterday, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
22,017 posts, read 22,322,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
Learning and surviving
I'm a bit confused. Do you believe a religion can be effective at teaching people to learn and survive if it simultaneously teaches falsehoods, is led by corrupt individuals and harms its adherents more than it helps them? Or did I misunderstand you?

To me, a theology could be considered "effective" if it made you a better person. If it didn't do at least that much, I wouldn't consider it effective, and if it had all of the negative attributes I mentioned, nothing would be able to keep me there.

Last edited by Katzpur; Yesterday at 09:54 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,363 posts, read 10,687,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm curious... If you were raised in a religion and didn't believe in it, felt the leadership was corrupt and that it did more to harm its members than it did to help them, would you stay or leave? If you'd choose to stay, why? Is social acceptance so important to you that you'd stick around at all costs, or would you at some point say, "Enough! I have enough integrity to stand up for what I truly believe and move on!"?
It works a little differently for Buddhists, because it is much more an individual journey.

But I have known people who have stood their ground and faced off with religious officials, and I have known people who just found another church or denomination.

The only thing I ever did was when I was catholic and the priest was in the middle of an anti-Nelson-Rockefeller rant over the word which cannot be spoken, and I stood up and walked out, and was publicly chided by the priest.
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Old Yesterday, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,211 posts, read 8,567,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm curious... If you were raised in a religion and didn't believe in it,
This would be enough to make me leave.

Quote:
felt the leadership was corrupt
This too would be sufficient.

Quote:
and that it did more to harm its members than it did to help them,
Yep. This makes me hit the road too.

Quote:
would you stay or leave? If you'd choose to stay, why? Is social acceptance so important to you that you'd stick around at all costs, or would you at some point say, "Enough! I have enough integrity to stand up for what I truly believe and move on!"?
Why would anybody stay in a religion that they donít believe in, is corrupt, and harms people? What kind of sociopath does that?
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Old Yesterday, 11:55 PM
 
39,993 posts, read 11,196,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm curious... If you were raised in a religion and didn't believe in it, felt the leadership was corrupt and that it did more to harm its members than it did to help them, would you stay or leave? If you'd choose to stay, why? Is social acceptance so important to you that you'd stick around at all costs, or would you at some point say, "Enough! I have enough integrity to stand up for what I truly believe and move on!"?
I have never been religious, but there have been equivalents where this or that failed to live up to its' hype and i walked.
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Old Today, 12:51 AM
 
3,222 posts, read 1,621,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm a bit confused. Do you believe a religion can be effective at teaching people to learn and survive if it simultaneously teaches falsehoods, is led by corrupt individuals and harms its adherents more than it helps them? Or did I misunderstand you?

To me, a theology could be considered "effective" if it made you a better person. If it didn't do at least that much, I wouldn't consider it effective, and if it had all of the negative attributes I mentioned, nothing would be able to keep me there.
The only way I would stay in that kind of situation is if my needs were met, which could not have been met anywhere else that was convenient. In addition, I would want more for all my pain and suffering. So I wouldn't stay if the institution does more harm because that automatically means I didn't get more to make up for the nastiness.

But I am not in the habit of getting more out of people than I need even if they are not good. I just do my best not to deal with them. So chances are, I would leave. I don't like taking advantage of people, even if they tried to take advantage of me.
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Old Today, 02:00 AM
 
47 posts, read 4,332 times
Reputation: 22



I recall a young man going through the same dilemma, wondering how to leave the family
religion & break out on his own. Then one night an angel appeared & took him on a journey,
& showed him the real world & how demonic & evil it is compared to the family religion he was
trying to leave.

I recall one other young man selling the family home to give the money to the poor, in order to
spite his family religion with its seeming selfish priests. But then his own wife & kids had to live in the gutter
without a home.

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