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Old 08-25-2019, 07:14 AM
 
40,150 posts, read 11,253,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
The point is not all people can marry, for good reasons and this is not discrimination. Marriage is or was a religious institution, if homosexuals or any others for whom marriage is not indended (since all religions condemn homosexuality) want to marry it becomes political and thus affects me and society as a whole.

What they do in their bedroom is indeed their business, until they persue a political agenda which the LGBT community certainly does.


Are you a homosexual yourself or why do you bother and support their agenda? It was you, not me, who opened the thread.
So now you show what the point really is - that same sex marriage is not wrong in itself, but Christians want to claim control of marriage and who can and who can't. On top of that you play the card of 'are you one yourself?'
In my working days I had this when i opposed the policy of sacking gays. They couldn't understand why I spoke against this policy as evil when i wasn't gay myself.

 
Old 08-25-2019, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,221 posts, read 9,183,445 times
Reputation: 6099
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
Marriage is or was a religious institution
Nope.

Not now, and never was.

It's a CIVIL institution, and religious clergy is allowed to conduct the ceremonies at the pleasure of the state.

If you don't believe me, just have any clergyperson try to conduct a wedding without a wedding LICENSE. And then let that couple try to obtain the societal incentives / benefits of marriage like filing joint taxes. See what happens. Get back to me.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,291 posts, read 8,597,485 times
Reputation: 15996
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
Marriage is between man and woman, why are homosexuals allowed to marry but not brother and sister, isn't this discrimination as well?


A homosexual man can marry a woman, so how is he discriminated? If he wants to marry no woman, this is his personal problem, why should a man marry a man?
Get over it. You are trying to prohibit something that is beneficial (same-sex marriage) by equating it with something that is problematic (incestual relationships).

It is like saying we should prohibit eating broccoli because eating cyanide is harmful. The premise of your argument is absurd.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 08:56 AM
Status: "Vaguely torpid." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
26,273 posts, read 13,670,869 times
Reputation: 11819
Davis may have suffered enough for her stupidity and bigotry. I'd leave her be.

But svenM's idiotic blathering warrants reproof and correction.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,559 posts, read 10,737,171 times
Reputation: 20762
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
The point is not all people can marry, for good reasons and this is not discrimination. Marriage is or was a religious institution, if homosexuals or any others for whom marriage is not indended (since all religions condemn homosexuality) want to marry it becomes political and thus affects me and society as a whole.

What they do in their bedroom is indeed their business, until they persue a political agenda which the LGBT community certainly does.


Are you a homosexual yourself or why do you bother and support their agenda? It was you, not me, who opened the thread.
What a very limited way of thinking.

I am not homeless, but I am concerned with homeless.
I am not a cancer patient, but I am concerned with finding a cure for cancer.
I am not Muslim, but I am concerned with radical Islam.

But I am gay, and I think you ought to get out of my life.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 09:26 AM
 
4,746 posts, read 970,684 times
Reputation: 2645
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
The point is not all people can marry, for good reasons and this is not discrimination. Marriage is or was a religious institution, if homosexuals or any others for whom marriage is not indended (since all religions condemn homosexuality) want to marry it becomes political and thus affects me and society as a whole.
No, ALL religion does NOT condemn homosexuality. Hindu's as an example do not. The Vedas refer to a "third sex," and those members of the third sex are not ostracized. The Kama Sutra says that that same-sex experience is "to be engaged in and enjoyed for its own sake as one of the arts."

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/the-kam...ut-it-18136291

The leading Buddhist, the Dalia Lama, has stated, "From society's viewpoint, mutually agreeable homosexual relations can be of mutual benefit, enjoyable and harmless."

Sikhs are very accepting of homosexual sex and any LBGTQ Sikhs are welcome in their temples. I'm sure you are well aware that many Christian churches, both in and outside the USA, support same-sex marriages.


Quote:
What they do in their bedroom is indeed their business, until they persue a political agenda which the LGBT community certainly does.
Is it anyone's business if a Roman Catholic follows the edict that only the missionary position is correct? How does that affect you, me or society? In the same manner, it just doesn't matter what Steve and Ralph do with each other under sheets, or Lilly and Susan. It's between two consenting adults, that's all that is pertinent. Giving same-sex couples the same rights does not cause you to lose any of yours.


Quote:
Are you a homosexual yourself or why do you bother and support their agenda? It was you, not me, who opened the thread.
Does it matter if I am homosexual, lesbian or enthusiastically heterosexual? What matters is that I care about the rights of fellow human beings. What matters is that there are members of society who actively campaign against the rights of our fellow human beings. All of them. White, brown, black, yellow, red, straight, non-straight, from all ethnic backgrounds, and from all religious ones. However, I will always call out those in any of those groups who would constrain anyone else or group to fewer rights than they possess.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,621 posts, read 5,597,778 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
Marriage is between man and woman, why are homosexuals allowed to marry but not brother and sister, isn't this discrimination as well?
First let's clear up your biblical ignorance. Did Abram not marry his half-sister Sara? If so, why didn't God keep his own commandment that such marriages should not happen.
Quote:
You must not have sexual relations with your sister, either your fatherís daughter or your motherís daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
Leviticus 18:9
It is ILLEGAL, not necessarily immoral, because we know the tremendously increased odds of such a pair having deformed children--and that places not just a burden on the parents, but on all society as well in the form of increased healthcare costs and public accommodations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
A homosexual man can marry a woman, so how is he discriminated? If he wants to marry no woman, this is his personal problem, why should a man marry a man?
And now a homosexual man can marry a man. Why shouldn't he if that is whom he loves? How has your life personally been impacted by such events. Has your spouse stated they won't go on in marriage because the "sanctity" is now broken?

The fact is, homophobic hate crimes are on the rise, frequently fueled by religious "fervor," and proving that religion, as practiced by most faiths and a significant number of "christian" denominations is on the rise around the world illustrating God's biblical message that the world will go to hell in a handbasket before the End comes.

UK:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7933126.html

France:
https://thegavoice.com/news/world/fr...-in-2016-2017/

Brazil:
https://76crimes.com/100s-die-in-hom...stics-updates/

Russia:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2015/...ade-ago-a48066

The U.S. according to FBI statistics:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nt/1582614001/

So if worshiping your god is so good, why so much violence? It's because your "beliefs" have nothing to do with God, and everything to do with your homophobia.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,621 posts, read 5,597,778 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
The point is not all people can marry, for good reasons and this is not discrimination. Marriage is or was a religious institution, if homosexuals or any others for whom marriage is not indended (since all religions condemn homosexuality) want to marry it becomes political and thus affects me and society as a whole.

What they do in their bedroom is indeed their business, until they persue a political agenda which the LGBT community certainly does.


Are you a homosexual yourself or why do you bother and support their agenda? It was you, not me, who opened the thread.
Don't know your Bible and refuse to study a topic before spouting off on it, eh?

Marriage did not begin as a religious institution:

Quote:
"What marriage had in common was that it really was not about the relationship between the man and the woman," said Stephanie Coontz, the author of "Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage," (Penguin Books, 2006). "It was a way of getting in-laws, of making alliances and expanding the family labor force."
1. Arranged alliances
2. Family ties
3. Polygamy preferred
4. Babies optional
5. Monogamy established (monogamy became the guiding principle for Western marriages sometime between the sixth and the ninth centuries, CE)
6. State or church? (Marriages in the West were originally contracts between the families of two partners, with the Catholic Church and the state staying out of it. In 1215, the Catholic Church decreed that partners had to publicly post banns, or notices of an impending marriage in a local parish----. Still, until the 1500s, the Church accepted a couple's word that they had exchanged marriage vows, with no witnesses or corroborating evidence needed.
7. Civil marriage (In the last several hundred years, the state has played a greater role in marriage. For instance, Massachusetts began requiring marriage licenses in 1639, and by the 19th-century marriage licenses were common in the United States.)
8. Love matches (mutual attraction in marriage wasn't important until about a century ago)
9. Partnership of equals (By about 50 years ago, the notion that men and women had identical obligations within marriage began to take root)

"One of the reasons for the stunningly rapid increase in acceptance of same sex marriage is because heterosexuals have completely changed their notion of what marriage is between a man and a woman," Coontz said. "We now believe it is based on love, mutual sexual attraction, equality and a flexible division of labor."
https://www.livescience.com/37777-hi...-marriage.html
Stop playing the role of ignorant fundamentalist and enlighten yourself. No one gets wisdom from the Bible unless they bring wisdom to it.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,559 posts, read 10,737,171 times
Reputation: 20762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Stop playing the role of ignorant fundamentalist ...
I don't think it's a role.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 11:00 AM
 
Location: The house I built
433 posts, read 201,823 times
Reputation: 984
As time passes a lot of this intolerance will just fade away. The younger generations are much more accepting and/or indifferent to the sexual preferences of others.



I don't agree with suing someone who is practicing their faith. Leave her alone. But where do we draw the line? Do we allow people with religious convictions to determine what is right and wrong for the rest of us?

Think of all the religions of the world and the examples become absurd.
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