Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I did not say, and did not suggest, that the Catholic church was responsible for WW2 , or the holocaust. The Catholic church certainly has it's own list of sins to atone for. But the Catholic church did not spawn Hitler.
Hitler subscribed to a mixture of Christianity and Germanic folklore. Combining Christian traditions with native folklore is common around the world. In Mexico it is known as Parachico. The Irish, for example, have their own native folklore combined with Christian teachings, as do the Dutch. In Hitler's case, he believed that Adam and Eve were pure Aryan's, and that all non Germanic peoples were were an inferior race of hybrid people.
Religion is a form of ignorance you see.
I do notice that YOU are the one that conflated Hitler and the term " Christian hero," not I. Hitler was a hero to millions of Christian Germans however.
But your twisted concepts are understandable. Religion tends to twist the mind and obscure reality.
This is a good example of what BF does. He attributes to you whatever pops into his mind as he argues a point, even though you never said it. I can't believe that it isn't an intentional attempt to undermine another poster with Trumpian techniques, rather than actual logic.
Who was it that murdered all the first born of Egypt?
No one. God killed them, as was his right to do so. But that was not murder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
So let me understand this.
The Old Testament is valid or invalid to christians?
That's a pretty simple question.
Your question is really kind of invalid. The "Old Testament" is valid? It's Scripture, so as God's Word, it's not "invalid".
Having said that, we do not have to follow the Mosaic Law found in the Old Testament, as we are not in that Covenant. God never commanded any Christian today to wipe out the Canaanites and take the promised land. I'm not King David, and God isn't going to use me to kill Goliath.
I did not say, and did not suggest, that the Catholic church was responsible for WW2 , or the holocaust. The Catholic church certainly has it's own list of sins to atone for. But the Catholic church did not spawn Hitler.
Hitler subscribed to a mixture of Christianity and Germanic folklore. Combining Christian traditions with native folklore is common around the world. In Mexico it is known as Parachico. The Irish, for example, have their own native folklore combined with Christian teachings, as do the Dutch. In Hitler's case, he believed that Adam and Eve were pure Aryan's, and that all non Germanic peoples were were an inferior race of hybrid people.
Religion is a form of ignorance you see.
I do notice that YOU are the one that conflated Hitler and the term " Christian hero," not I. Hitler was a hero to millions of Christian Germans however.
But your twisted concepts are understandable. Religion tends to twist the mind and obscure reality.
I guess my concern is that you take the fact that he was at one time Catholic and suggest that means he was Christian. You apparently really don't have a clue what it means to be a Christian, do you? It's not simply putting one's name on a membership role.
As for Hitler's wacky beliefs? That's not in any way Christian. The Bible teaches nothing of the sort of stuff you list above. He was no more Christian than our Jewish friend Richard.
No one. God killed them, as was his right to do so. But that was not murder.
Your question is really kind of invalid. The "Old Testament" is valid? It's Scripture, so as God's Word, it's not "invalid".
Having said that, we do not have to follow the Mosaic Law found in the Old Testament, as we are not in that Covenant. God never commanded any Christian today to wipe out the Canaanites and take the promised land. I'm not King David, and God isn't going to use me to kill Goliath.
Did innocent babies end up dead, or not?
Is it the same god or a different god in the OT and NT?
You can twist sentences anyway you wish, but the bottom line is still the bottom line.
By referring to Hitler as Catholic, so he must be Christian, it is making that implication. He was culturally a Catholic as a child.
Christians don't murder 8 million people. That's incompatible with the changed life that is in Christ.
And I stand on that ground that there is more to indicate he was an atheist than a Christian. He certainly did not demonstrate by his actions that he was in Jesus.
You’re forgetting about the Inquisition and the Reformation where they did murder folks...
No one. God killed them, as was his right to do so. But that was not murder.
Your question is really kind of invalid. The "Old Testament" is valid? It's Scripture, so as God's Word, it's not "invalid".
Having said that, we do not have to follow the Mosaic Law found in the Old Testament, as we are not in that Covenant. God never commanded any Christian today to wipe out the Canaanites and take the promised land. I'm not King David, and God isn't going to use me to kill Goliath.
But He did tell christians to burn people at the stake and murder them because they wouldn’t convert to Christianity...
BF does have a point here. I had a look and he didn't bring Hitler up. It was that Hitler's Godfaith would get him into heaven (if he repented). BF said that Hitler wasn't a Christian. He was certainly a god -believer though, and also revered Jesus too (so do Muslims). He despised Christianity for its' weakness and though islam would have been better for Europe. He didn't persecute Christianity for that reason. Indeed, he didn't persecute Christianity at al - so long as it played ball. He persecuted anyone who stood against Naziism.
No Hitler was a God believer and no atheist. But that wasn't what BF was arguing; it was that Hitler was no Christian in the mainstream / orthodoxy sense.
The can of worms is opening and I would prefer to leave it there. And I'll leave to other the argument about OT God's dirty hands and the extent to which a new Covenant somehow excuses that. It is an apologetic that spoils my supper.
I guess my concern is that you take the fact that he was at one time Catholic and suggest that means he was Christian. You apparently really don't have a clue what it means to be a Christian, do you? It's not simply putting one's name on a membership role.
As for Hitler's wacky beliefs? That's not in any way Christian. The Bible teaches nothing of the sort of stuff you list above. He was no more Christian than our Jewish friend Richard.
In fact the Bible directly teaches genocide.
Stalin did not believe in God. He was an atheist by definition. Do I feel any connection with Stalin? NOPE! Do I know any atheists that feel a connection with Stalin? NOPE!
My original point was that Hitler considered himself to be a Christian.
Do you have any right or authority to deny Hitler his peculiar brand of Christianity?
No one. God killed them, as was his right to do so. But that was not murder.
Your question is really kind of invalid. The "Old Testament" is valid? It's Scripture, so as God's Word, it's not "invalid".
Having said that, we do not have to follow the Mosaic Law found in the Old Testament, as we are not in that Covenant. God never commanded any Christian today to wipe out the Canaanites and take the promised land. I'm not King David, and God isn't going to use me to kill Goliath.
What about the Ten Commandments?
Aren't they important, esp since Catholics are accused of removing the 2nd Commandment? (ie wrt Idols)
Evangelicals are very good at pointing that one out, so it must still be relevant.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
