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Old Today, 09:45 AM
 
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Think of that.

No world religion except one requires blood be shed to satisfy its god's anger toward people. Not even Islam which Westerners think of as a savage religion. I find that ironic.
The practice of making human sacrifices to a god to appease their wrath goes back to earliest man with their primitive beliefs that the Sun (Son? ) was a god, along with thunder, lightning, and other forces of nature, that had to be satisfied with the shedding of human blood to cause their gods to stop bringing calamity upon them.


The various Canaanite tribes living in early Palestine made human sacrifices to Molech, and from that religion came Yahweh who also required sacrifices but not human ones.


Interestingly, NOWHERE in the Old Testament does Yahweh say he will at a future date send his son to die in a one-time substitute sacrifice for the sins of his people, much less ALL people. This is a relatively recent invention dating back to the destruction of Herod's Temple in 70 CE.


Yahweh did accept human sacrifice, however, as in the case of Jephthah's daughter found in Judges 11:30-40 and Yahweh WAS appeased by human sacrifice as in the case of the Gibeonites found in 2Samuel 21:1-11


What we see is a chain of religious human sacrifice dating from the most ancient civilizations, through early Judaism when Jews were polytheists and made human sacrifices, through later Judaism which required animal sacrifices to Christianity, which requires the shedding of a man's blood to appease god's wrath. Interesting, isn't it?


Which leads to another interesting question: does the Christian god have the capability of overriding his sense of justice and simply forgive sin without requiring a sacrifice of blood, whether animal or as in the case of the New Testament, Jesus' blood? It would appear so. God forgave David his adultery with Bathsheba as found in 2Samuel 12:13


"Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die."


In the New Testament the parable of the Prodigal Son mentions no sacrifice. The father (God) forgives his son his transgressions without requiring a sacrifice to appease the father.


Many Christians love to raise the analogy of a scofflaw in front of a judge and the judge being duty-bound to impose a fine which the judge then gives the scofflaw a free gift of the money to pay the fine. Such an analogy is nonsense. The law requires is fine, but a judge has the power to dismiss the fine just as the Christian god has the power to dismiss a man's sins without a penalty as the Prodigal Son and David aptly demonstrate.


In short, there is ample demonstration in the Bible of God NOT requiring a sacrifice in order to be able to forgive sin. Such a belief came about in the 2nd Century with the gospel of John in order to justify having to keep the Christian avatar, Jesus Christ the central figure of Christendom.
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Old Today, 10:17 AM
 
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This a very good, and succinct encapsulation of not only the Christian reality of worshipping a torture device (the cross), and a significant portion of them practicing ritual cannibalism, believing a cracker and wine actually turn into the bodily flesh and blood of their Jesus.

You have accurately laid out the essence of the OT, as well as the reality of what Christianity, at its essence, really is. I wonder what some of the more fervent believers will respond to this.
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Old Today, 10:30 AM
 
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Yet it is actually Atheists who seem to be the ones who are obsessed with violence and blood. And they are the ones who take the more extreme action in those areas whenever they come into power. Even though their campaign talk is always "peace and love". Everyone can see right through them.
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Old Today, 11:03 AM
 
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What we see is a chain of religious human sacrifice dating from the most ancient civilizations, through early Judaism when Jews were polytheists and made human sacrifices, through later Judaism which required animal sacrifices to Christianity, which requires the shedding of a man's blood to appease god's wrath.


How exactly did you start with animal sacrifices and transition that into human sacrifice?

When did Christianity require animal sacrifice?
You do understand that when Jesus says "this is my blood and this is my flesh", it's an absolute allegory? What was he, supposed to talk to his disciples in terms of eloquent esoteric concepts? To fishermen and peasants? As blood is the living force of a human body and one that "consumes blood" is consuming vital force, the spirit, the essence? Who'd understand him?
Long, illogical post, with conclusions drawn based not on strict logic and facts, but on prejudiced thinking and derivatives, drawn at will, not from facts.
And I am no Christian but - if you want to fight something, do better job.
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Old Today, 11:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
This a very good, and succinct encapsulation of not only the Christian reality of worshipping a torture device (the cross), and a significant portion of them practicing ritual cannibalism, believing a cracker and wine actually turn into the bodily flesh and blood of their Jesus.

You have accurately laid out the essence of the OT, as well as the reality of what Christianity, at its essence, really is. I wonder what some of the more fervent believers will respond to this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Yet it is actually Atheists who seem to be the ones who are obsessed with violence and blood. And they are the ones who take the more extreme action in those areas whenever they come into power. Even though their campaign talk is always "peace and love". Everyone can see right through them.

There's your answer, norm. Fundies will turn it on the atheists and blame them for their own god's insatiable lust for blood.


Ozzy seems to have jumped right over the fact that in many parts of the Bible the christian god does not require blood for forgiving. So why is the christian religion so barbaric? I traced its roots back to cavemen who sacrificed babies and virgins to gods to take away their anger after a hurricane or earthquake blew through the land and decimated them. Christianity is just a religion that essentially never grew up and got civilized. It kept its beliefs in this ancient barbaric practice of a god needing blood spilled to turn away his wrath and anger at people for doing something bad.



A close analysis of christianity shows that it is this inseparable link between Jesus and blood that churchmen believed was so necessary to keep them in power and privilege. If the christian god didn't need Jesus' blood poured out, then adherents to christianity wouldn't need the churchmen and they'd be out of very cushy jobs. If you study the politics of how christianity grew you find this totally evident:


For the churchmen to keep themselves in absolute power, wealth and privilege they absolutely needed Jesus and his blood sacrifice to be a part of their religion. How then to justify keeping Jesus around? Well, by inventing this crazy theology that god is a god of love but he is also a god of wrath and anger. That's a dichotomy going out the gate but that doesn't faze christians. In fact, christians don't seem to be fazed in the slightest by anything that is completely illogical and downright insane if it involves their theology.

Last edited by thrillobyte; Today at 11:27 AM..
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Old Today, 11:32 AM
Status: "Disney travel agent" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: The tiki tiki tiki tiki tiki room
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God is not some human judge-He is God, holy and above all creation.

Godís justice must be satisfied. It was, through Christ.

Jesus was not a mere man, He is God in flesh.

Isaiah 53 prophesied Jesusí redemptive work. In the NT, that passage was referred back to in Matthew 8:14-17; John 12:37-41; Luke 22:35-38; 1 Peter 2:19-25; Acts 8:26-35; Romans 10:11-21.
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Old Today, 11:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Yet it is actually Atheists who seem to be the ones who are obsessed with violence and blood. And they are the ones who take the more extreme action in those areas whenever they come into power. Even though their campaign talk is always "peace and love". Everyone can see right through them.
Huh???? Explain yourself.
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Old Today, 11:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
What we see is a chain of religious human sacrifice dating from the most ancient civilizations, through early Judaism when Jews were polytheists and made human sacrifices, through later Judaism which required animal sacrifices to Christianity, which requires the shedding of a man's blood to appease god's wrath.


How exactly did you start with animal sacrifices and transition that into human sacrifice?

When did Christianity require animal sacrifice?
You do understand that when Jesus says "this is my blood and this is my flesh", it's an absolute allegory? What was he, supposed to talk to his disciples in terms of eloquent esoteric concepts? To fishermen and peasants? As blood is the living force of a human body and one that "consumes blood" is consuming vital force, the spirit, the essence? Who'd understand him?
Long, illogical post, with conclusions drawn based not on strict logic and facts, but on prejudiced thinking and derivatives, drawn at will, not from facts.
And I am no Christian but - if you want to fight something, do better job.
Talk to Catholics about this. They believe in the actual transubstantiation. In other words, the actual cannibalistic eating of Jesus's flesh and blood. Over a billion of Catholics.
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Old Today, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Yet it is actually Atheists who seem to be the ones who are obsessed with violence and blood. And they are the ones who take the more extreme action in those areas whenever they come into power. Even though their campaign talk is always "peace and love". Everyone can see right through them.
From the official statement that outlines the goals of the Ku Klux Klan:

"VI. Racial: To maintain forever white supremacy. To maintain forever the God- given supremacy of the white race."
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Old Today, 12:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
What we see is a chain of religious human sacrifice dating from the most ancient civilizations, through early Judaism when Jews were polytheists and made human sacrifices, through later Judaism which required animal sacrifices to Christianity, which requires the shedding of a man's blood to appease god's wrath.


How exactly did you start with animal sacrifices and transition that into human sacrifice?

When did Christianity require animal sacrifice?
You do understand that when Jesus says "this is my blood and this is my flesh", it's an absolute allegory? What was he, supposed to talk to his disciples in terms of eloquent esoteric concepts? To fishermen and peasants? As blood is the living force of a human body and one that "consumes blood" is consuming vital force, the spirit, the essence? Who'd understand him?
Long, illogical post, with conclusions drawn based not on strict logic and facts, but on prejudiced thinking and derivatives, drawn at will, not from facts.
And I am no Christian but - if you want to fight something, do better job.

You're missing my point, ukrkoz. I'm merely showing how the idea that the christian god requires blood in some form to appease his anger stretches all the way back to earliest man--in the same way that your lineage stretches back to your great-great grandfather, but you don't have anything in common with him except your heritage. Here's the lineage of human sacrifice:


Stone-Age tribes sacrificed humans to their gods. Then, early Jews living alongside the Canaanites, sacrificed humans to their Canaanite gods when they were polytheists. Then when later Jews rejected the Canaanite pantheon of gods and accepted only one among the pantheon, Yahweh, they dropped the human sacrifices and picked up animal sacrifice--but not altogether, for many Jews still held to worshiping and sacrificing babies to Molech, Yahweh's big brother, so to speak. Then when christianity came it went back to human sacrifice in the form of a Jesus-one-time-human-sacrifice for all mankind. This happened around 70 CE when Herod's temple was destroyed and the Jews couldn't make animal sacrifices anymore, so they conceived the idea of a son of god being an acceptable one-time sacrifice for all sin for all time. The evolution is quite clear to anyone who will drop their biases against anything that questions the dogma of the Church.
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