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There is a case that Christianity is not to blame for what people do with it. I saw a vid on the battle of Cold Harbour and was rather revolted to hear a quote from a captain or so telling his men that any who fought to the last would go to heaven and those who shirked or ran would go to hell. This is a blatant misuse of religion to encourage (to put the best face on it) soldiers to fight. That is not what Christianity was intended for but it has been and still is exploited for that purpose. Religion is even exploited for political ends. And i hardly need labour how it is used to bilk people out of their money.
This is not what Christianity teaches and is not to blame for it; it's what people do. Thus logically it should be possible to deal with the abuses without upsetting the believers and even have their support and encouragement in cleaning out the abuses from the system.
But that is not what we get. So much personal investment is put into religion and so easily the believer will accept any swindle, manipuiation and exploitation in the name of religion, that they will fight tooth and nail to prevent abuses, swindles and crimes being exposed just as much as they will battle Bible criticism, evolution -theory or impartial comparison with other religions or superstitions.
Can't argue much with any of this and "religion is even exploited for political ends?" Ha! I can't extract politics from religion going back to the beginning. Pretty much a symbiotic relationship if you ask me. Also of course, not only was God used to promote whatever actions or agenda intended by countless historical leaders, but all through history even lost battles were deemed a result of God's disapproval of the vanquished, even when it was their own! Famines, disease, loss of loved ones..., all bad things were tied to judgement and punishment or reward by God.
Who back then and even to this day can escape the yoke of that sort of constant messaging that forever has us believing that bad things will come to us if we don't believe and do right by Him (or Her)...
There is a case that Christianity is not to blame for what people do with it. I saw a vid on the battle of Cold Harbour and was rather revolted to hear a quote from a captain or so telling his men that any who fought to the last would go to heaven and those who shirked or ran would go to hell. This is a blatant misuse of religion to encourage (to put the best face on it) soldiers to fight. That is not what Christianity was intended for but it has been and still is exploited for that purpose. Religion is even exploited for political ends. And i hardly need labour how it is used to bilk people out of their money.
This is not what Christianity teaches and is not to blame for it; it's what people do. Thus logically it should be possible to deal with the abuses without upsetting the believers and even have their support and encouragement in cleaning out the abuses from the system.
But that is not what we get. So much personal investment is put into religion and so easily the believer will accept any swindle, manipuiation and exploitation in the name of religion, that they will fight tooth and nail to prevent abuses, swindles and crimes being exposed just as much as they will battle Bible criticism, evolution -theory or impartial comparison with other religions or superstitions.
Good post. My question is whether or not Christianity teaches. The only way to know if it taught anything is if the intended objectives were successfully passed on. So far the only objective I can identify is to believe in Jesus Christ. Pretty simple. Perhaps the reason for so many interpretations of the Bible is because beyond this objective, there are no other clear ones.
If I analyze the main objective, which is to believe in Jesus, it does not rely on good interactions with others. If I do something wrong, Jesus forgives. That is an easy interaction. Where it becomes more complicated is when objectives are dependent on good interactions with others, when the better route would have been to set objectives that benefit both sides. For example, love thy neighbor is not an objective. It is a theme. So instead of setting a different objective, the character of the individual is in question if they don't love their neighbor. Maybe they are not really a Christian. So now we have a possible source of abuse.
Even if Christianity was not a factor, that captain would have found another way to persuade the men to fight, such as Thomas Paine's 'sunshine soldier.' He needs them but can't reward them in the immediate future. Therefore he must shift his interaction with his men from material reward to internal reward. This can be accomplished by pitting one imaginary group with another imaginary group. Who wants to be called a sunshine soldier?
I hate to admit this but I don't budge until I see an external reward. If I have to do something for a good cause, the objectives have to be clear and there needs to be progression from one objective to another. It is the only way I have figured out how to protect myself from being abused, swindled, or exploited.
Good post. My question is whether or not Christianity teaches. The only way to know if it taught anything is if the intended objectives were successfully passed on. So far the only objective I can identify is to believe in Jesus Christ. Pretty simple. Perhaps the reason for so many interpretations of the Bible is because beyond this objective, there are no other clear ones.
If I analyze the main objective, which is to believe in Jesus, it does not rely on good interactions with others. If I do something wrong, Jesus forgives. That is an easy interaction. Where it becomes more complicated is when objectives are dependent on good interactions with others, when the better route would have been to set objectives that benefit both sides. For example, love thy neighbor is not an objective. It is a theme. So instead of setting a different objective, the character of the individual is in question if they don't love their neighbor. Maybe they are not really a Christian. So now we have a possible source of abuse.
Even if Christianity was not a factor, that captain would have found another way to persuade the men to fight, such as Thomas Paine's 'sunshine soldier.' He needs them but can't reward them in the immediate future. Therefore he must shift his interaction with his men from material reward to internal reward. This can be accomplished by pitting one imaginary group with another imaginary group. Who wants to be called a sunshine soldier?
I hate to admit this but I don't budge until I see an external reward. If I have to do something for a good cause, the objectives have to be clear and there needs to be progression from one objective to another. It is the only way I have figured out how to protect myself from being abused, swindled, or exploited.
I hear you...
All religions teach something. What is or is not worthy, worthwhile, true or not tends to be a subjective matter. Hardly two people will learn the same thing from the same religion, but no doubt when it comes to Christianity, it's much about Jesus. For many the lesson(s) are all about right vs wrong and sadly many religious people seem to believe that they and others would be bad instead of good if not for what their religion has taught them and those reasons that "keep them honest."
All religions teach something. What is or is not worthy, worthwhile, true or not tends to be a subjective matter. Hardly two people will learn the same thing from the same religion, but no doubt when it comes to Christianity, it's much about Jesus. For many the lesson(s) are all about right vs wrong and sadly many religious people seem to believe that they and others would be bad instead of good if not for what their religion has taught them and those reasons that "keep them honest."
Yes, they do "teach" and I use to worry about how effective they were, but they do welcome people of all backgrounds and intelligence levels. There is simply no way to accommodate all the different kinds of people who come to church for different reasons. What might be considered common sense for one group of church goers, may actually be very difficult to apply in a different setting. For example, love thy neighbor works well in a community where education and civility are a priority. They understand the concept of the theme and most agree on what exactly the word 'love' means. They don't take it literally. But in a setting where people struggle not just economically but socially and educationally, it can be more challenging.
Can't argue much with any of this and "religion is even exploited for political ends?" Ha! I can't extract politics from religion going back to the beginning. Pretty much a symbiotic relationship if you ask me. Also of course, not only was God used to promote whatever actions or agenda intended by countless historical leaders, but all through history even lost battles were deemed a result of God's disapproval of the vanquished, even when it was their own! Famines, disease, loss of loved ones..., all bad things were tied to judgement and punishment or reward by God.
Who back then and even to this day can escape the yoke of that sort of constant messaging that forever has us believing that bad things will come to us if we don't believe and do right by Him (or Her)...
That's why it is needful to understand that DNA has started to show up that morals are derived from instinct evolve by society. Which is why, all the time religion claimed to be the originator and administrator of morality, it had a grip on society and thus politics.
There is no valid reason to allow this Pirating of human ethics, society and religion and more, and whether dogmatic and denialist religion is wagging dogmatic and denialist poiitics, it's time to end this scam and con -trick once and for all.
Good post. My question is whether or not Christianity teaches. The only way to know if it taught anything is if the intended objectives were successfully passed on. So far the only objective I can identify is to believe in Jesus Christ. Pretty simple. Perhaps the reason for so many interpretations of the Bible is because beyond this objective, there are no other clear ones.
If I analyze the main objective, which is to believe in Jesus, it does not rely on good interactions with others. If I do something wrong, Jesus forgives. That is an easy interaction. Where it becomes more complicated is when objectives are dependent on good interactions with others, when the better route would have been to set objectives that benefit both sides. For example, love thy neighbor is not an objective. It is a theme. So instead of setting a different objective, the character of the individual is in question if they don't love their neighbor. Maybe they are not really a Christian. So now we have a possible source of abuse.
Even if Christianity was not a factor, that captain would have found another way to persuade the men to fight, such as Thomas Paine's 'sunshine soldier.' He needs them but can't reward them in the immediate future. Therefore he must shift his interaction with his men from material reward to internal reward. This can be accomplished by pitting one imaginary group with another imaginary group. Who wants to be called a sunshine soldier?
I hate to admit this but I don't budge until I see an external reward. If I have to do something for a good cause, the objectives have to be clear and there needs to be progression from one objective to another. It is the only way I have figured out how to protect myself from being abused, swindled, or exploited.
At base, the reason men fight is because of tribal instinct. Once we understand that, we can find other ways of doing business other than wars. This is true and i submit that we all know itr, but blame our inability to do it on human wickedness or suchlike. Christianity has failed to provide a solution by wringing it's hands over the carnage it urged it dupes on to fight for their lies and promises, and then blames man's wickedness, lack of religion and secularism for what it is the supporter of even if it isn't the instigator, and consider how right -wing religion and the Hawks today are joined at the hip.
This claim that Christianity is about peace and war is to be blamed on a lack of Christianity is another con and scam that we need to get wise to. One of many.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-19-2019 at 01:32 AM..
At base, the reason men fight is because of tribal instinct. Once we understand that, we can find other ways of doing business other than wars. This is true and i submit that we all know itr, but blame our inability to do it on human wickedness or suchlike. Christianity has failed to provide a solution by wringing it's hands over the carnage it urged it dupes on to fight for their lies and promises, and then blames man's wickedness, lack of religion and secularism for what it is the supporter of even if it isn't the instigator, and consider how right -wing religion and the Hawks today are joined at the hip.
This claim that Christianity is about peace and war is to be blamed on a lack of Christianity is another con and scam that we need to get wise to. One of many.
Men fight over resources.
Any religion that sets expectations on how people 'should be', fails in its ability to resolve its own conflict. It may be successful in persuading people to live up to its expectations. However, it fails to self-regulate itself for the simple fact that it tells us what to do.
statements of belief need to do a better job in self regulating. People shouldn't (I know, I know) unite under flags of belief. It seems like it would be healthier if they they united under "memes" like "the pursuit of happiness for all people.", with a keen eye on "how are your pursuing?"
we see it all the time in forums, people use personal experiences to justify their behavior over logic. I am an atheist so evaluate claims independent of a statement of belief about God. Too many smart people use personal practicality, personal experience, and other emotions to try and sway the middle man to take part in extremist views or "just get out of our way" unjust actions.
"religion", actually more useful when stated as "statement of belief about god", is an emotional based tool/weapon. Like fire, it can save us or destroy us.
Good post. My question is whether or not Christianity teaches. The only way to know if it taught anything is if the intended objectives were successfully passed on. So far the only objective I can identify is to believe in Jesus Christ. Pretty simple. Perhaps the reason for so many interpretations of the Bible is because beyond this objective, there are no other clear ones.
If I analyze the main objective, which is to believe in Jesus, it does not rely on good interactions with others. If I do something wrong, Jesus forgives. That is an easy interaction. Where it becomes more complicated is when objectives are dependent on good interactions with others, when the better route would have been to set objectives that benefit both sides. For example, love thy neighbor is not an objective. It is a theme. So instead of setting a different objective, the character of the individual is in question if they don't love their neighbor. Maybe they are not really a Christian. So now we have a possible source of abuse.
Even if Christianity was not a factor, that captain would have found another way to persuade the men to fight, such as Thomas Paine's 'sunshine soldier.' He needs them but can't reward them in the immediate future. Therefore he must shift his interaction with his men from material reward to internal reward. This can be accomplished by pitting one imaginary group with another imaginary group. Who wants to be called a sunshine soldier?
I hate to admit this but I don't budge until I see an external reward. If I have to do something for a good cause, the objectives have to be clear and there needs to be progression from one objective to another. It is the only way I have figured out how to protect myself from being abused, swindled, or exploited.
ding ding ding.
it boils down to Intentions and motivations. I can't, in all honesty, side with the militant brand of theism. I call a sect. I need more than "we hate religion." Focusing on "hate religion" over "stopping any hate." is a major hurtle for most reasonable people. Of course these people are very clever. they wrap their emotional views in "we are only trying to help you."
I understand that theism is the vast majority. That doesn't change the fact that intentions are really important.
castro or Mr King.
How we win kind of matters.
How we win echoes through time.
it boils down to Intentions and motivations. I can't, in all honesty, side with the militant brand of theism. I call a sect. I need more than "we hate religion." Focusing on "hate religion" over "stopping any hate." is a major hurtle for most reasonable people. Of course these people are very clever. they wrap their emotional views in "we are only trying to help you."
I understand that theism is the vast majority. That doesn't change the fact that intentions are really important.
castro or Mr King.
How we win kind of matters.
How we win echoes through time.
Hi, Arach. When you say "I need more than", I would identify that as a main source of conflict for you in this topic. I take responsibility for my own conflicts and resolve them. The same would hold true if the statement was "You should...". That is another source of main conflict.
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