Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Which of the following defines you the most?
Your faith/religion. 5 27.78%
Your family position (Ex: mother/father). 0 0%
Your job. 0 0%
Your social standing/network. 1 5.56%
Your political position(s). 1 5.56%
Your hobby (cars, guns, cooking). 1 5.56%
Your race. 0 0%
Your culture. 2 11.11%
Where you live. 1 5.56%
Other. 7 38.89%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-27-2019, 10:12 AM
 
Location: NSW
3,746 posts, read 2,954,504 times
Reputation: 1347

Advertisements

I suppose in some ways I am a cultural Catholic, and have had family of the cloth, but it is also my faith as well.
But in many ways, the cultural side of it is very strong, and have been through the education system in it as well - this side of it is very big in this country.
Cultural catholics are vulnerable to conversion by Evangelicals, so you have to be careful, both with yourself and your family.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-27-2019, 11:21 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,165 posts, read 80,278,112 times
Reputation: 57025
There are too many of us without religion to consider it defining. Our state ranks 45th for church membership, with only one in 3 people being religious. That’s up from 49th 10 years ago due to some upticks in Mormons.

Any of the other choices is more accurate than religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2019, 05:39 AM
 
7,572 posts, read 4,118,010 times
Reputation: 6925
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Also best avoided while driving...
Or when handing over one's own money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2019, 06:12 AM
 
21,898 posts, read 19,043,939 times
Reputation: 18026
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
And there's a reason they're mocked, although more often than not, my experience has been that normal people just feel sorry for their delusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
If you see things or hear things, I think those are called hallucinations, not delusions, but not when it comes to religion. With religion, seeing god or hearing him is considered real by religious people. I think that as long as it doesn't impact your ability to form relationships with others, then it is not considered a problem. Once your beliefs start interfering with other people's lives, they start calling you things like delusional and that you are having hallucinations. In other words, they respond negatively....
"If you see things or hear things, I think those are called hallucinations,"

"creativity" is seeing things and hearing things. it is what creative artists do, it is what inventors do. so according to you when a musician or composer creates a symphony or writes a song you call that "hallucinating." when an artist paints a masterpiece they are "hallucinating." When an inventor sees a solution that is "hallucinating."

Michelangelo, Beethoven, DaVinci, Nikola Tesla were "hallucinating." and phet says "normal people feel sorry for their delusions."

with regards to "they respond negatively" that describes those who consider creativity, intuition, and a spiritual path "delusional and having hallucinations."

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-28-2019 at 06:34 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2019, 06:14 AM
 
7,572 posts, read 4,118,010 times
Reputation: 6925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
If you see things or hear things, I think those are called hallucinations,

"creativity" is seeing things and hearing things.

so when a musician or composer creates a symphony or writes a song you call that "hallucinating."
when an artist paints a masterpiece they are "hallucinating." When an inventor sees a solution that is "hallucinating."

Michelangelo, Beethoven, DaVinci, Nikola Tesla were "hallucinating"
If hallucinations are impacting your ability to survive or form close relationships, then they need to be looked into. You did not provide an example of what I am talking about. I believe a doctor determines if something is a hallucination. I was describing the difference between the words as plainly as possible while also trying to keep a foot in the R/S forum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2019, 06:30 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,081 posts, read 20,502,115 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
If you see things or hear things, I think those are called hallucinations,

"creativity" is seeing things and hearing things.

so when a musician or composer creates a symphony or writes a song you call that "hallucinating."
when an artist paints a masterpiece they are "hallucinating." When an inventor sees a solution that is "hallucinating."

Michelangelo, Beethoven, DaVinci, Nikola Tesla were "hallucinating." and phet says "normal people feel sorry for their delusions."
Tzaph, you're equivicating. Haaucinations are not the same thing as creative imagination. Artists know that the constructs in their head are imaginary. Music, fairies and harry Potter are not Empirically true and the artists don't claim that they are.

Hallucinations are mental images that the person believes are real but aren't. Validation and test (for example mirages) tell us the difference between hallucination and what is real

We have done this argument before but you aren't listening.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2019, 06:39 AM
 
21,898 posts, read 19,043,939 times
Reputation: 18026
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Tzaph, you're equivicating. Haaucinations are not the same thing as creative imagination. Artists know that the constructs in their head are imaginary. Music, fairies and harry Potter are not Empirically true and the artists don't claim that they are.

Hallucinations are mental images that the person believes are real but aren't. Validation and test (for example mirages) tell us the difference between hallucination and what is real

We have done this argument before but you aren't listening.
it's not an argument. it is simply the logic that phet and elyn are using in their posts. according to phet and elyn, they are the same thing.
the two posts referenced which i responded to use the words delusion and hallucinating. i am responding to and applying their specific word usage and definitions.

you claim to know that what artists see and hear is "imaginary" and "not real."
that is hilarious. the music of Beethoven is real. the art of DaVinci and Michelangelo is real. the inventions of Tesla are real. what they saw and heard in non-physical form was real. Then they put it into physical form.

and there you are saying "music is not empirically true."

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-28-2019 at 06:52 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2019, 06:40 AM
 
7,572 posts, read 4,118,010 times
Reputation: 6925
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Tzaph, you're equivicating. Haaucinations are not the same thing as creative imagination. Artists know that the constructs in their head are imaginary. Music, fairies and harry Potter are not Empirically true and the artists don't claim that they are.

Hallucinations are mental images that the person believes are real but aren't. Validation and test (for example mirages) tell us the difference between hallucination and what is real

We have done this argument before but you aren't listening.
Yes. I believe delusions are not when you see or hear things, but when you "think" something is happening when it is not. These mostly happen in social situations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2019, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,238 posts, read 23,861,466 times
Reputation: 32604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
"If you see things or hear things, I think those are called hallucinations,"

"creativity" is seeing things and hearing things. it is what creative artists do, it is what inventors do. so according to you when a musician or composer creates a symphony or writes a song you call that "hallucinating." when an artist paints a masterpiece they are "hallucinating." When an inventor sees a solution that is "hallucinating."

Michelangelo, Beethoven, DaVinci, Nikola Tesla were "hallucinating." and phet says "normal people feel sorry for their delusions."

with regards to "they respond negatively" that describes those who consider creativity, intuition, and a spiritual path "delusional and having hallucinations."
1. I don't think that's what Elyn was saying at all. I look at creativity as something that artists (of various sorts, whether musical or artistic, or even inventors) do, and that involves using one's imagination. That is when the artist (a film director is a good example) allows his imagination to see a fantasy world. That is totally different than when a person cannot control what they see or hear. There's a huge difference between Steven Spielberg sitting down and imagining a movie plot by seeing scenes in his head on purpose, and my Aunt Millie who would suddenly be taken over by visions and voices.

2. Yes, normal people feel sorry for people see/hear out of control visions/voices. One day years ago when I was still living in the D.C. area, I was downtown at Dupont Circle, crossing the street. A crazy man who sort of looked like Jack Nicholson in "The Shining" when knocking down the door, ran across the street where I was and got up in my face and yelled, "I've seen it. I'm gonna kill somebody today!". I didn't know quite what to say..."I hope it's not me sir", was the only thing I could force out of my mouth. He took off across the street, smashed the quart-sized beer bottle he had in his hand against the wall of a building and stabbed a homeless person in the belly. That's not the same thing at all as an artist who envisions a canvass. The former is not in control of himself, the latter is. And yes, normally we feel sorry for people who are no longer in control of their faculties.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2019, 06:45 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,081 posts, read 20,502,115 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
it's not an argument. it is simply the logic that phet and elyn are using in their posts. according to phet and elyn, they are the same thing.

the two posts referenced which i responded to use the words delusion and hallucinating. i am responding to their specific word usage and definitions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
Yes. I believe delusions are not when you see or hear things, but when you "think" something is happening when it is not. These mostly happen in social situations.
Well, with Elyn and I get from Phet's post, tto, that is clearly not what they are arguing. Artistic creativity (apart from merely copying what is demonstrably real) is not the same as believing what you imagine to be real, when it demonstrably isn't. Either you can't understand what they are saying or you prefer not to. And so you misrepresent their argument either through failure to understand it or deliberately. Which is it?

I know which it is, but do you?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top