Who will sit with me within the sacred circle (Catholics, evolutionary, mass)

[northsider]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

Killing someone from a different country, even a different continent cannot truly feel real. It must seem a lot like a video game

I tend to agree with much of what you say here Moosketeer. But the above is far from the truth. Take it from an old warrior who has experienced death and destruction in lands far from my home -- a human being is still a human being no matter what their race, colour, creed or whatever uniform they wear, or whatever flag they serve under.

I honour those who were once my adversaries.

Now I hope deep in my heart that my grandchildren and yours will never know the realities of war.

[OrionsAngel]

Originally Posted by ptsum

That is also why before a hunt we ask permission of the Creator and honor the spirit of whatever animal we hunt and once that animal's life has been taken we offer a prayer to the Creator for that particular animal spirit and thank him for sacrificing himself so that we may live.

Sir, you are one of the most awesome human beings I have had the pleasure to read the posts of. Thank you kindly, for realising these important details. If ever you need a hand, you can always call on me!

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by northsider

I tend to agree with much of what you say here Moosketeer. But the above is far from the truth. Take it from an old warrior who has experienced death and destruction in lands far from my home -- a human being is still a human being no matter what their race, colour, creed or whatever uniform they wear, or whatever flag they serve under.

I honour those who were once my adversaries.

Now I hope deep in my heart that my grandchildren and yours will never know the realities of war.

Sorry, I expressed myself badly. I meant geographically rather than someone of a different nation

I mean pushing a button a hundred miles from your target and seeing it on a screen is simply not the same feeling as having to stab someone with a knife or even machine gun them down.

We now have remote control war and I cannot help but feel we have lost that connection with the humanity we destroy .


Taking a life hand to hand is something which I believe will alter the very vast majority of people because that shared thread of humanity is still there .


I think in many ways old -style old warriors had a feeling of comradeship and respect even for their enemies whether now we have become shielded from the really bloody aspect of war ( not all the time but we are heading that way) and have lost that connection to the "other" .

I just pray ( to my Atheist Gods !) that I never , ever have to go through this.

I believe it would destroy me. I feel guilty enough as it is about so many things ( most of which I never have any control to begin with) , this sort of experience is something which might just break me.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by ptsum

That is also why before a hunt we ask permission of the Creator and honor the spirit of whatever animal we hunt and once that animal's life has been taken we offer a prayer to the Creator for that particular animal spirit and thank him for sacrificing himself so that we may live.

I agree. This Atheist might not be terribly spiritual but she always "thanked" the animals she used to kill for their lives when she used to hunt.

Anything else would have seemed almost obscene and I always felt it a mark of simple respect to say a non- religious "prayer" of thanks-giving for nourishment .

I never had a problem with hunting as long as it is done with respect for your quarry ( and for food/clothing /survival/shelter) . I grew up with hunters and all of them had the deepest respect for their prey.

I have the greatest contempt for men and women who presume to take a life and take pleasure in killing and it becomes something which is done for vanity ( like trophy hunting in Africa for example, still rife sadly) .

Hunting is something which brings us closer to Nature and a deeper understanding of the life cycle.

Done respectfully and because of necessity it is I believe good for the soul.

[OrionsAngel]

I agree mouseketeer, it is only out of nessesity that we should use the wild game to feed and shelter ourselves. Thats why I am a shed antler hunter, when the animals lose their antlers in spring to grow new ones, I hunt the gifts they leave on the ground behind them. I dont go trophy hunting as the sport dictates a title "great hunter". I was raised on Elk meat out of nessesity and abundance of the game at the time. The "sporting" of trophy animals is unnessesary IMO, as they can hunt those shed antlers in the bushes just as I do, if they want to. I despise the trafficing of live wild game which now the people in governing offices have written new policies and partake in the financial rewards by "outfitting" in trophy land at any time of the year now for a huge fee and trespass rights to enter private "ranching for wildlife" locations, or selling "in captivity Elk" which there was never ever an origination to, so there is no justification to this form of legalised "trafficing". What kind of sportsman thinks creeping up on a captive animal is worthy of the word hunting?
I also cant stand the kind of people who go to the woods with their guns and just blow away anything that moves just for fun. Makes me sick.

[Goodpasture]

I was reading somewhere that there is a "ranch" online that will let you sit at your desk, focus cross hairs on an animal, "pull a trigger" on the keyboard, and in a few weeks have your kill mounted and stuffed and delivered to your house or place of business.

I cannot imagine the damage such a killing does to ones spirit.

I shot a neighbors dogs the other day. It was part of a pack running loose and was attacking another neighbors calf. I got off two shots, hit two of the dogs.....there were five......we had the vet come out and stitch up the belly wound on the calf.....it had already lost both ears. But even in a situation like that I felt it necessary to offer a prayer for the spirits of the dogs. Although their actions cannot be tolerated, still they were acting as the creator decreed they should.

It's interesting.....after more than 60 years in this life, I find it more and more difficult to kill than I did when I was young. Killing the dogs was needed and justified and necessary, but it still caused me spiritual pain............

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

This Atheist might not be terribly spiritual but she always "thanked" the animals she used to kill for their lives when she used to hunt.

Are you sure you aren't confusing a couple of terms? Being "spiritual" does not mean "religious." You obviously feel a kinship with the animals you hunted. You have a level of compassion that does not prevent you from acting as your nature says you should act. You are not in denial of the less savory elements of your character.

I cannot help but feel that compassion is an element of spirituality. I have a pair of rubber boots. I wear them when they may get damaged. Not a problem for me. I have no compassion for them, they have no spirit to cherish or honor. On the other hand I feel compassion for those living things that not only may be damaged, but that I may intentionally damage.

Whether you believe in Jesus or Buddha or simply have an awareness of the commonality of the spirit found in life, I cannot believe that a person of compassion is bereft of spirituality. On the other hand, if anything stifles spirituality, it is an organized religion..........

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

I was reading somewhere that there is a "ranch" online that will let you sit at your desk, focus cross hairs on an animal, "pull a trigger" on the keyboard, and in a few weeks have your kill mounted and stuffed and delivered to your house or place of business.

I cannot imagine the damage such a killing does to ones spirit.

I shot a neighbors dogs the other day. It was part of a pack running loose and was attacking another neighbors calf. I got off two shots, hit two of the dogs.....there were five......we had the vet come out and stitch up the belly wound on the calf.....it had already lost both ears. But even in a situation like that I felt it necessary to offer a prayer for the spirits of the dogs. Although their actions cannot be tolerated, still they were acting as the creator decreed they should.

It's interesting.....after more than 60 years in this life, I find it more and more difficult to kill than I did when I was young. Killing the dogs was needed and justified and necessary, but it still caused me spiritual pain............

I agree and Beautiful post GoodPasture.

I will never understand how anyone ever takes pleasure in taking a life. One kills out of necessity but to enjoy it is degrading to our Human spirit and shows contempt for life in general not only the on you take.

For example I have never been able to trust people who don't like animals. Somehow to me this is a sign of someone to avoid. I find it sinister. Not to have respect and regard for the wonders of the animal kingdom is bizarre to me . I don't like Zoos either, or people who anthropomorphise animals by dressing them up .

I find it degrading to the animal and an indictment to our human nature and natural arrogance that we can never leave well alone. It shows a lack of respect to take a Tarentula ( and goodness knows I am terrified of Spiders) and put it in an aquarium out of its natural environment, usually on its own. Even worse with creatures who need to roam . I actually feel sick to my stomach when I see caged animals. It actually hurts me. I understanding the argument about bredding for conservation programmes etc.. but it does not make it any better to me.

To have a Wolf or a Bear even one born in captivity in a tiny cage is a crime against all I hold sacred. In a huge fenced off natural park/reserve maybe but not a cage.

Anybody who kills for fun needs some serious help IMO because it shows the greatest of disregard for a thread which links us all in a great circle of life.

I am sorry you had to kill that Dog. Dogs in particular hold a special place in the human heart , having been our faithful companions for millenia and to be forced to kill one simply because of its animal instincts must have been very sad and very hard.


I agree that spirituality is very different from religion, I guess I never really feel like either. I tend to be on the whole very pragmatic and what might appear as spirituality I would call my moral compass/emotional side.

I think very deeply about too many things and feel a litttle too much sometimes too. I am a lot softer than many people believe me to be. Not always a good thing ! I have a reputation with people I know ( but who don't know me very well) for being terribly hard-nosed, cynical and a bit harsh .

[Miss Blue]

I agree Goodpasture and Moose that we are all spiritual people..I believe it is something within us that we cannot locate or explain scientifically..Some call it their "religion" and the many kinds of beliefs that come under it..I believe that it is a part of God/creator that is in all even the animals who I think have a different spirit than humans, but the spirit of survival and instinct..I never trusted a person that my dog acted warily to or outwardly showed his fear ..or protectiveness for me.. by his laid back ears and low growl..
Excellent posts as usual from you two

[effie g-tad]

in absentia, wherever needed.

http://www.zoonar.de/appgen/?cl=zoon...esource&search[searchstring]=huflattich&search[type]=p&search[results]=25&cmd=show_picture&lastcmd=search_library&res_id =717854&idx=0