Who will sit with me within the sacred circle (minority, attending, hell)

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by ptsum

And sometimes having somebody to talk to, to just listen and not be critical or judgmental can be very helpful.

You are a wise man. Those of us invited to join you in a circle are the truly fortunate ones.

Today I finished a class in a new venue. We held it at the Territory Cellars, a local winery. Absolutely delightful place. On the first night of class the winery holds a wine tasting.........they have a white jalapeno that is a bit on the sweet side with a really pleasant bite (I happen to like peppers) that is absolutely perfect with a bit of cheese and a peasant styled whole multi-grain bread.

This evening we age getting the beginnings of a real thunderstorm. I was outside for a while this evening as it began the rolling thunder that presages a true downpour. Not really threatening, and I didn't see any signs of tornadoes, but there has been a constant rumble of thunder now for over an hour. It is gradually increasing in both volume and frequency. I expect a major downpour before I call it a night.

I wanted to share this with friends.......thank you for letting me. But I am now going to pour myself a drink and await the coming storm as darkness overtakes us...........

[_redbird_]

Request to sit in sacred circle, do I. <bows to ptsum and others>

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/redbird4848/straightdanceryoda.jpg (broken link)

Hm. Wisdom and love transcend denominational border skirmishes witnessed on CDF, do they. Hmm. Religious war or even arguing over bible proves man's futile attempt to grasp love with feeble mind. Hm.

[ptsum]

Brother redbird, you are always welcomed here and your sense of humor.......after all,what good is life if one cannot laugh at oneself once in a while..

[_redbird_]

In the old days, members of our tribe would make a journey to Pipestone quarry in Minnesota from Oklahoma.

On the way, they passed through many different areas with different tribes. Along the way, they never got into any skirmishes, because other tribes sensed their intent was a spiritual quest.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could respect other people's journey and not wage a war of words against them, or stoop to tossing scriptures over the fence at others?

That is what the sacred circle means to me. A place where all can gather and sit in peace with others as brothers. Whether the person next to me is atheist, adventist, or agnostic, he is still my brother/sister.

Here is a pic of my friend, Mukshiemen, or Fish Swimming Upstream, in the gift shop at the Pipestone Quarry national park in Minnesota.

[effie g-tad]

i it goes without saying..


YouTube - Herman van veen - Ich hab ein zaertliches Gefuehl

[Goodpasture]

I thought a pipestone pipe would be a good thing to have. So I did a search for pipestone quarry to see what was there. I came across a perturbing post on one website

[No Guns on the sacred Pipestone National Monument grounds

The latest project we are working on is letting people know about the new ruling that the government will be bringing in in January. The ruling will allow anyone to be on National Park land or National Wildlife areas carrying concealed weapons. This will include the Pipestone National Monument, a place, where since time immemorial it has been an unwritten law that weapons should be buried before setting foot on the land. A place that is very sacred to most Native American Tribes.

The Park Superintendant is trying to get the Monument an exemption from this ruling because of it's history and religious standing.

We have set up a facebook group for people to have their say and to join to keep up to date on the issue. We have also set up a website giving more details. A petition is being worked on.
Facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=582654017&ref=name#/group.php?gid=39688533171&ref=mf - broken link)
Website

I am a gun owner and affectionado. but I do not think weapons should be carried to sacred places. Guns are the tools of warriors. but they do not belong in church.

[ptsum]

There are some places that are sacred and should be left that way out of respect.osay

[Goodpasture]

Its funny how some things stick in our minds and we can't let it go.

Safety is a personal feeling. What makes me feel safe is frequently different than what others may feel is needed. Warriors, charged with the safety of their people, are reluctant to be disarmed and will only do so when they feel safe. When the Cheyenne, the Arapaho, the Kiowa, and the Lakota met at the quarry to mine the pipestem that they needed for their ceremonies, they would only disarm themselves when they felt secure in the knowledge that all that gathered there would honor the truce between the nations. Otherwise, sacred or not, they would not have buried their weapons before entering the quarry. Interesting how they chose to bury the weapons rather than just leave them in camp. I suppose the digging up of a weapon would give time for a cooling off time, should there be anger between people........and I am certain that if a bully or greedy person tried to steal or claim a piece that another had been working to acquire that tempers would flare. You don't step on the toes of a warrior or you will find out what they really are........and I am reminded of the old adage that there are no dangerous weapons.....just dangerous people.

But in this country we have recently had a man kill several people in a church........although arguably not that holy of a place.........the reverence for such places does not permeate society the degree it used to. In fact, there are parts of the world where the bombing of places of worship is used to eliminate as many of a different sect as possible.

If this were a couple of hundred years ago, ptsums sacred circle could easily have been a target by those who felt it God's command to destroy such a place (in the name of the prince of peace). It would have been outside my sense of safety to attend there without the means to defend myself and those I pray with from those who would destroy such places. Many pagan people were killed and persecuted while giving thanks to the solstice or equinox or celebrating a holy day.

I read a story one time that explained something I, as a child, had always wondered about. In the old western movies, the Indian always rode up to the white man, lifted his hand (palm facing the stranger), and said "how." I could not figure that out for the longest time. Then I read, in a book more humorous than historical, that the Indian was simply being economical when he said "how." This is because the white man always said "How are you?" "How are your children?" "How are you going to accomplish things"...............it was always "How........" "How........" "How........" "How........"so the Indian just said "How".....and covered everything.

He also raised his hand. This was to show there was nothing hidden in the hand. No knife, no coup stick, no war club, no gun, nothing. He was there in peace and his hand is empty. Unlike the white man where we regularly put our hands out in front of us, grab the other persons hand and shake it really well to make sure there is nothing hidden up the sleeves. We cannot take a mans word for it......we have to shake his hand in case there is a weapon hidden on it. Granted, we do it ceremoniously now rather than in earnest........but the thought is always there that the white man cannot be trusted. "Stabbed in the back" is a phrase used frequently in today's workplace.

So as I think of it, when men and women of honor go to a sacred place, that they have or don't have a weapon is irrelevant, isn't it? If they do you won't know it. If they don't you won't know it. It is the men and women whose hands must be shaken who should not be allowed in with such a weapon. But if they come in with one, and they turn it on others with no respect for the place, for the spirits, or for the traditions, I think it would be good to have men and women of honor able to encourage proper behavior.

[songinthewind7]

Dropping by to say hello to you all in the Circle.
I've been away for a bit and off doing mundane things.
I feel my best around nature. I've been off balance lately but am getting back on track. It helps when I drum and it helps when I talk to people that want to be in harmony with the Earth and it depresses me when most people don't understand this is what makes me tick.
I don't need to be rich. I don't need a big house. I don't need fair weathered 'friends' and I don't need a bunch of drama.
I need balance.
May I drum awhile with you all in the Circle?

[Goodpasture]

I am envious of your home. The Sacramento's are a wonderful place. I always thought that that would be a good place to live. there was a place over the mountains from you, near Weed, that I felt very much at home while I was deer hunting. As a teenager I used to pick pinon in that area.....I came across a pack rats nest once (this was before the Hanta virus) and got almost 50 pounds of pinon.....best day of pinon picking I ever had.

If you spend some time in the eastern part of the Sacramento's, or even the Guadalupe's south of you, you would find a good power spot to re-establish your connection. I would suggest going barefoot, but that country is not good for bare feet. Wearing a pair of moccasins would be good though.

I also liked that area near sunspot where you can see the McKittick Range, white sands, and the Organs on the other side of the Tularosa Basin.......the southern mountains of New Mexico are awesome places to be..........

But we are happy to have you join us..............