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FYI, the word is charlatans (lower case). I think I'm 1/128th Native American, but I'm not going to pretend to be NDN. Who would I be trying to kid? Just consider me an ally. I admire your cultures and artistic efforts immensely.
FYI, the word is charlatans (lower case). I think I'm 1/128th Native American, but I'm not going to pretend to be NDN. Who would I be trying to kid? Just consider me an ally. I admire your cultures and artistic efforts immensely.
Not trying to be argumentative, but are you now saying that that 128th portion is irrelevant?
I am probably as mixed as anyone on this forum. My mothers mother was Cherokee. She was married (I think) to a Hawaiian (I think they were married.......maybe they were common law). But my mothers mothers father was on the old settler roles, not the Dawes commission roles. My mothers mother refused to acknowledge her Cherokee heritage......she was raised where to be an ndn was to be lower in society than a black.....or a n**** in her language. But she was created by the Tsalaghi....my mothers fathers mother was a island girl who honored her king and only in middle age saw her culture destroyed, the royal family extinct, and a foreign people claim their paradise. I have no way of knowing who my mothers fathers father is....I assume he was a good friend of hers.....more than likely from the same village on Maui but possibly not.
How can I abandon their heritage because I have a bit more hair on my face, I've had freckles all my life, and am rapidly growing balder. If anything it is even more important to me, my children, my grandchildren that they know that portion of their heritage. I have friends on many reservations and in many ndn nation jurisdictions in Oklahoma. In many of their cases they look ndn. They are fortunate in one respect in that they are close to the elders of their people, they have close contact to the museums that exhibit and honor their culture, they live with cousins and friends that share the culture.
Those of you (like me) who were not allowed to experience the culture of our ancestors and who try to regain much of what was lost, should not be dismissed as charlatans. Perhaps some are like former smokers who carry on about having fought tobacco and won. Perhaps there are those who are overly exuberant in discovering traditions they "own" but have never been exposed to.
I think if those are encountered, they should be treated with the tolerance and understanding that one would treat a child who discovers the wonder of an earthworm or the magic of a butterfly.
But if they do show signs of being honest about learning it is good. And if they go overboard, then, maybe, we should smile and let them get puffed up. There are those of us who have been there........
Like many, I get tickled/irritated when someone tries to be what they are not. I used to laugh at the women who moved to Taos from Ohio or Iowa, or California and begin dressing in squaw dresses and Navajo velvet blouses with lots and lots of Squash Blossom necklaces, bracelets, rings, earrings and ear cuffs.......all purchased at the open market at the Governors Palace in Santa Fe.........or the men who begin wearing their blond hair in Pueblo braids with conch belts in jeans and fringed jackets............Just because you move to Pine Ridge does not make you Lakota. But if a persons ancestor was Dragging Canoe or Nancy Ward, then that person has, in my mind, an obligation to celebrate that heritage......it is his own heritage, and his right to celebrate it.
Last edited by Goodpasture; 10-19-2010 at 02:44 PM..
I only meant that the 1/128th isn't enough to make me try to claim Native American status, in response what someone said about 'drum circles'. I had a great-grandmother who was allegedly 1/16 NDN (I never met her). And as for 'charlatan', I was only pointing out the correct spelling (rather than 'Charleton', I think), making no comment as to the appropriateness of the use of it.
I don't think it's 'irrelevant'. But as it is such a small fraction, what am I supposed to consider it is relevant to? It sounds like you are at least 1/4th NDN, 32 times what I am. I meant no disrespect, and certainly don't recommend that you abandon your heritage. I don't know how you got that from what I said.
I only meant that the 1/128th isn't enough to make me try to claim Native American status, in response what someone said about 'drum circles'. I had a great-grandmother who was allegedly 1/16 NDN (I never met her). And as for 'charlatan', I was only pointing out the correct spelling (rather than 'Charleton', I think), making no comment as to the appropriateness of the use of it.
I don't think it's 'irrelevant'. But as it is such a small fraction, what am I supposed to consider it is relevant to? It sounds like you are at least 1/4th NDN, 32 times what I am. I meant no disrespect, and certainly don't recommend that you abandon your heritage. I don't know how you got that from what I said.
catman, I don't think Goodpasture was questioning you on being Native American or the amount, to some of us it doesn't matter whether it's 1/128th or 1/4th or full-blood. I like the words that Broken Medicine Eagle once quoted; Being Indian is an attitude, a state of mind, a way of being in harmony with all things and all beings. It is allowing the heart to be the distributor of energy on the planet; to allow feelings and sensitivities to determine where energy goes; bringing aliveness up from the Earth and from the Sky, putting it in and giving it out from the heart.
Catman, I was not taking issue with you. I agree with your "drum circle" analogy. I am equally dismissive of those individuals. My Swiss ancestors came to this continent in the early 1700's. It wasn't that many generations before that that his ancestors were a tribal people living close to the earth and were likely heathens. My Irish ancestors were among the tribal people in Europe, probably Celtic/Pict/Viking/Saxon mixes and a mix of heathen and pagan. All of these make up what has become me. But I don't carry a stone hammer, I really am not fond of mead, I don't share blot....even though it is likely my ancestors did. I do relate to many of the concepts of oneness with the earth, a relationship with the creator, and some of the rituals found on this continent.
But I know guys who play into the viking ancestry, get primitive tattoos, and talk about Thor as they down tankards of ale. I find those people as silly as those who wear their hair as pigtails wrapped in yarn in the Pueblo tradition......or as silly as those who attend healing services at Oral Roberts. To me, the first step in spiritual awareness is to begin the process of meditation and prayer. Even Siddhartha began that way. It is cross cultural, cross faith, and is THE essential element in any true spiritual development.
catman, I don't think Goodpasture was questioning you on being Native American or the amount, to some of us it doesn't matter whether it's 1/128th or 1/4th or full-blood. I like the words that Broken Medicine Eagle once quoted; Being Indian is an attitude, a state of mind, a way of being in harmony with all things and all beings. It is allowing the heart to be the distributor of energy on the planet; to allow feelings and sensitivities to determine where energy goes; bringing aliveness up from the Earth and from the Sky, putting it in and giving it out from the heart.
Well, based on that definition......I AM FULL BLOODED INDIAN!!!
Well, based on that definition......I AM FULL BLOODED INDIAN!!!
This is always a difficult question as there those people who are unenrolled that are yet recognized by the people as one of them. There are those unenrolled that the people don't recognize. I'll just post some stuff I posted in the geneology forum as, quite frankly, I don't feel like typing anything new.
Having NDN blood is irrelevant from a cultural perspective if a person knows nothing of their people other than that which can be gleaned from a book. If you didn't grow up in it, if you have no family or friends that live it, if there is no one in the tribe that claims you, you aren't one of them. The nations decide who is one of them, not the individual. That's just the way it is.
People often confuse ancestry with tribal citizenship and/or enrollment. There is nothing wrong with people celebrating or honoring their ancestors. But, they cannot claim to be one of the tribe if the tribe itself has not declared it to be so.
No one said people couldn't be proud of their heritage, couldn't be proud that they have a native ancestor, but the simple fact is: they are not members of a Tribal Nation unless the Nation itself says they are. So while they may have the heritage handed down like someone from another country it is up to the Tribal Nation in question to determine if they are or are not tribal citizens and by extension whether they are NDN Tribe X. It is the sovereign right of the Tribal Nation to make that determination and not anyone who just wishes they were Indian in their heart or may or may not have had a native ancestor. For example, a person who is descended from Italian ancestors but isn't an Italian citizen can claim their heritage, claim their ancestry but they can not claim Italian citizenship or Italian identity if the Italian nation doesn't acknowledge them.
Each Nation has its own qualifications for enrollment. For some tribes, it's a matter of blood quantum. For instance, in my tribe, you have to be 1/8. For others like the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, you have to prove that you have an ancestor on some roll like the the Dawes rolls.
Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view, enrollment is all tied to tribal/BIA benefits and services. Because of this, the Nations cannot just have anyone who claims that they are genetically tribe X and receive those benefits or services. They have to prove it, and the bottomline is that there are just so many dollars available to provide those things. In many ways, this is what enrollment is all about.
With that being said, this does not mean that an unenrolled person cannot have community recognition by the members of the tribe. Community recognition and enrollment are two different things as well. There are some folks who cannot get enrolled for one reason or another.
For instance, say there is a person who is 1/8th in a tribe like mine who requires that for enrollment. Let's say that that person marries a non-Indian or even a person from another tribe. Let's go with marrying a person from another tribe. They have children. Those children are then 1/16 Comanche. Though the children may be more than half "Indian" due to a 1/8 Comanche father and, say, a full-blood Navajo mother, they cannot be enrolled in the Comanche Nation (though they could be enrolled in the Navajo Nation).
Now, let's assume that the couple lives in Lawton, Oklahoma or surrounding area and the children were raised with Comanche traditions and culture. In a situation like this, the Comanche people would recognize those children as one of their own even those those children are not enrolled with the Comanche Nation. The same would be true if those children had a white mother, for example.
As I said, community recognition and enrollment are two different things. There are other situations where someone was adopted out to non-Indian parents, yet the community recognizes them. Even those who may just have a distant ancestor can gain community recognition, but it must be on the people's terms, not the individual in question. It happens, but a person in that situation must take it slowly and let the people get to know them. If one just marches into a tribal gathering looking some way, loudly proclaims to be one of them and the people don't know them or their family, well, at best they can expect to be ignored.
An Indian Nation is a community and not just a matter of genetics. I think that is the explanation that is missing in this discussion.
I agree, this is a good place to come, even if one doesn't always actively participate. I don't "converse" much, but I check in, everyday, to see what's going on in the lives, and spirits of my friends, here in our circle. It lifts my heart, and gives my soul things to ponder.
When I wonder how CelticLady is , I come to the circle where her presence is felt and I know she is well..
There is one other element that I think should be addressed. And this has nothing to do with enrollment. It has to do with respect. The one element I find different between the poseurs and people of spirit is respect. I watched too many in the Taos area acquire Kachina's, Totems, Fetishes and artifacts and wear or display them without consideration of their meaning. Turquoise is more than a pretty rock. Silver is more than a metal. The spirits of a nation can be found in the Kachinas. To take a religious artifact like a Kachina and put it on a mantle over the fireplace along with the santa claus stockings and a creche is, to me, disrespecting the entire nation and their traditions. A Kachina is more than a pretty statue. Old ones were given offerings. Too many are made today to feed the tourist industry and, like crucifixes, are sold to non-believers.
I have my traditions, and I would not dishonor yours any more than I would accept your dishonoring mine.
As I have mentioned I am an appraiser. One of the things lenders do not want is someone claiming they were denied a loan for being black, Muslim, female, gay, handicapped, or any of the other protected classes. Consequently when we take pictures for an appraisal report we try to leave people and indications of the people out of the photos. I always try to take pictures of bathrooms, kitchens, living areas, fireplaces, etc. Frequently there are personal items on the fireplace mantle. I always ask the home owner/occupant to move them so I can get a picture. I do not simply go up and turn the picture down, or move the incense burner, or menorah. I am not of their faith. My handling their religious and personal objects is (or could be) disrespectful. Not knowing their traditions, I can do it wrong.
Respect for others beliefs, others faiths....not judging, not imposing my perceptions on them.....honoring their traditions without trying to be them......this is essential.............its called respect
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