Religious vs Non Religious- Quality of Life (atheism, suicide, bible)
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The religious in this world have an All Powerful, All Knowing, All Loving God on their side that answers prayers. If this God that answered prayers and looked after his followers actually existed wouldn't their quality of life be SIGNIFICANTLY better than the non-religious?
Yet all I see are Disease, Divorce, Depression, etc all kinds of suffering inflict the religious just as much as the non-religious.
If this type of God existed why do we not have undeniable evidence that the lives of the religious are just that much better than the non-religious?
You could argue that due to your faith that your personal quality of life has increased but how is that any different from just being spiritual or investing your time in your own personal development?
What Christ has promised us is not of this world but of the next. Christ is not interested in your quality of life here on earth, but on the salvation of your immortal soul. Earthly things don't matter to Jesus. You are thinking about it all wrong.
Christ wants us to be unworldly. It is an impossible demand. I am not likely to give away all my money, put on rags and go live in in a cave somewhere living off the land. I am materialistic and worldly. I can't say I am a very good Christian, but I would never pray to the Lord for my "quality of life".
Ah, the "tolerance" game! Thoreau's post to which I responded was just so oozingly "tolerant," wasn't it? Wait a minute - why doesn't your tolerance extend to my reply to Thoreau? Are you selectively tolerant?
I've got news for you: Warm-and-fluffy "niceness" is not inevitably a part of doing unto others. "Tolerance" of anything and everything is not part of doing unto others at all.
If someone makes a series of silly and irrational statements, I reserve the right to call them on it. If that strikes you as intolerant, angry and hate-filled, that's your problem.
Which is precisely why "spirituality" has no meaning. There is no such thing as free-floating "spirituality." The us-versus-them of religion is Truth versus Untruth. Without any system of underlying Truth to anchor it, "spirituality" is just ball of postmodern fluff. If it makes you feel good about yourself, I don't care - but don't kid yourself that you're saying anything substantive by claiming to be "just soooo much more spiritual than those icky religious people."
BINGO to the nth degree! If I am "angry," this is why - the utter absurdity of participants here saying the things they do with complete impunity, urged on by their cheerleaders, while blatantly exhibiting EXACTLY THE SAME attitudes they criticize in others.
I'm still waiting for Thoreau or one of his sycophants to address my simple questions: How do you know the things you claim to know? What is the basis of the sweeping generalizations you so confidently make? How does what you say meet the test of rationality? You don't get a pass, at least not from me, just because you're "spiritual."
I was addressing my perceived view of lack of tolerance from conservative Christians including but not exclusively yourself. And if other posters view your posts as angry, intolerate,presumptions and maybe silly that's your problem not mind. And when have you or any other religious posters gave immunity to what non believers have posted? That is the persecution complex at work trying to gain brownie points.
I am glad you capitalize Truth because it doesn't actually mean true or truth but just you egocentric opinion. No thing more than your opinion. And it seems I don't like you using truth to mean something other than being true much in the way you get upset with how others use spiritual.
a) there is nothing "spiritual" about a blanket dismissal
b) blanket denigration of religion
c) but it says a whole lot about the disdain and contempt an individual carries festering within.
and it demonstrates a staggering level of toxic intolerance.
the posts just before that were addressing religion versus spirituality.
so what would say the difference isreligion versus spirituality.
on a joking side I heard someday say once religion is BS that other people tell you and spirituality is BS we tell ourselves. I laughed when I heard that. I guess the best jokes are 1/2 true.
Golly, I didn't realize I'd received any replies.
"Just spiritual" means nothing. You are either in communion with Truth or you are not. For Christians, God is Truth. We do not believe the working of the Holy Spirit is something we imagine or generate internally. We believe it is real.
Prayer is not about "getting things." It is not about "make me healthy and wealthy and give me a new Ram 3500 4x4 while you're at it." Prayer is about communion with God, about worshipping and giving thanks, about sharing troubles and concerns, about yielding to his will.
It is your faith that maKes what you believe truth to you. Spiritual seekers believe god is truth as well, they just dont think of god the way you do. They have a different concept and it is the truth for them. They do believe they have communion with the spirit, just not your god.
Your anger stems from the fact that you think spiritual seekers are somehow getting away with something while you are burdened with all this that you defend.
the posts just before that were addressing religion versus spirituality.
so what would say the difference isreligion versus spirituality.
i would not say there is a difference.
there are many paths of realization and many ways of honoring the sacred.
it is an artificial distinction that i don't find accurate or useful or necessary. or helpful or constructive or uplifting. or unifying or harmonious or positive.
rather, the opposite. on all those items just listed. it is a distinction that diminishes rather than celebrates.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-28-2020 at 10:14 PM..
The difference between Religion and Spirituality is central to their differential effects on people and the quality of life in a society. Religion reflects a conviction and dedication to a set of beliefs ABOUT God that are central to their understanding of God and their attitude toward how others should relate to God. Spirituality reflects a conviction and dedication to God, per se, and focuses on personal access to God not on how others in society relate to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
i would not say there is a difference.
there are many paths of realization and many ways of honoring the sacred.
it is an artificial distinction that i don't find accurate or useful or necessary. or helpful or constructive or uplifting. or unifying or harmonious or positive.
rather, the opposite. on all those items just listed. it is a distinction that diminishes rather than celebrates.
There is definitely a difference and it is summarized in the bold above.
i would not say there is a difference.
there are many paths of realization and many ways of honoring the sacred.
it is an artificial distinction that i don't find accurate or useful or necessary. or helpful or constructive or uplifting. or unifying or harmonious or positive.
rather, the opposite. on all those items just listed. it is a distinction that diminishes rather than celebrates.
The problem is that you seem to think that everyone has to see things the way you do.
I guess it was around 1964 when Catholic masses in the U.S. switched from to Latin to English for all the ritualistic parts. And I remember that my paternal grandmother (like many catholics) had a terrible time with that change. And I remember saying to her, "But grandma, you don't understand Latin. Now you'll be able to understand what the priest is saying". She wanted none of it. And personally, I thought it was rather foolish. HOWEVER, if she needed that religous ritual to be in Latin...then I guess she needed that. Maybe it was about feeling secure in the church. Maybe it was just not liking change. You always seem to want there to be a "unifying, uplifting, harmonious" (all words you used) something-or-other-nebulous-thing. But what if other people are uplifted and find harmony in their lives with something different than you are preaching?
Let me tell you about something I observed in the foreign kids who came into our school in the ESL program. They tended to go through 3 phases in regard to "culture" (for wont of a better term). At first, when they'd arrive, often from a third world country, they pretty much only knew their homeland's culture, whether it was Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, El Salvador, Nicaragua, etc. (in all 54 countries over the years in our school). At first they were afriad of their new home, and they clung to their culture and (if they were lucky any kids also from their culture). And then, after a while, they basically wanted to throw away their homeland's culture and just be what they had slapped together to be an "American kid". The last thing they wanted was to be reminded of where they were from. They wanted to think only about where they were now. And then, sometime later, often by the time they had moved on to high school or even college, when they'd come back to visit me, they'd find a balance and have a new appreication for their homeland's culture AND an appreication for their new American culture. I don't think you allow that kind of independent thinking. You seem to demand that everyone buy into this "unified religious" vision of yours. Why am I required to want that just because you like it?
Because guess what...I went from 100% christian...to trying to piece together a unifed religion of christianity + Buddhism...and, after 30 years of trying to make that work, I gave up and moved totally away from christianity to Buddhism. The unified thing...it just didn't fit together for me, even after 30 years. I don't ask you to become Buddhist. I don't ask you to become atheist. But you seem to insist that everyone want that "unifying, uplifting, harmonious" concept that you like.
It puts you in the same category you seem to have disdain for -- being dictated to. Why does everyone's "celebration" have to be about your belief?
I already know what's going to happen. Because I wrote this post, you'll reject it without even thinking about it. But you don't know all the answers. And like the rest of us, you don't even know all the questions.
The difference between Religion and Spirituality is central to their differential effects on people and the quality of life in a society. Religion reflects a conviction and dedication to a set of beliefs ABOUT God that are central to their understanding of God and their attitude toward how others should relate to God. Spirituality reflects a conviction and dedication to God, per se, and focuses on personal access to God not on how others in society relate to God.
except you are doing just that when you make a big deal of the "difference between religion and spirituality." that is exactly what you ARE focusing on, "how others in society relate to God" when you go on your anti-religion tirades.
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