The Gospels Readactively Critiqued. (Biblical, God, Christians, believers)
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Matthew does NOT say that the family was "residents" of Bethlehem. I think you're connecting Matthew 1:24 with Matthew 2:1, and assuming that the family actually lived in Bethlehem.
They didn't. Joseph was originally from Bethlehem, but he had been living in Nazareth ( which is in Galilee). They traveled to Bethlehem from Nazareth in order to be counted in the census. While there, Mary went into labor, and had Jesus.
Jesus was born in Joseph's home town of Bethlehem. From there they went to Egypt and then BACK to Nazareth.
None of this is in Matthew, you are just reading Luke back into Matthew.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
No discrepancy. Between Matthew and Luke it gives a more complete report as to what happened.
Matthew says Joseph and Mary avoided Jerusalem while Herod and his sons reigned, which is 10 years or more. Luke says they went every year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
Hope you have massive amounts of evidence that solid-body appearances were "invented", just like you require from us.
Yes, they are only found in the later, fictional gospels. Paul says all the appearances were like his, in visions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
The one thing I've noticed about atheists and other bible scoffers is that when they read the bible, they don't seem to "put it ALL together". They take bits and pieces and weigh them against other bits and pieces and say, "AHA! The bits and pieces contradict!"
That is because they do contradict. All apologists do is take these contradictions (such as eating bacon) and pretend one explains the other, or that Matthew was writing for Jewish Christians (even though that is not in Matthew).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
Meanwhile, both bits and pieces are part of the same story...just with more detail. Or, both bits and pieces apply to two different situations. Yet, you refuse to see it that way.
Because we know how the gospels evolved, and we recognize your ad hoc excuses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
Witnesses don't see a traffic accident happen from the same point of view. If you already know this (and I'm sure you do), why can't you see the different Gospel writers in the same way?
Irrelevant, as the gospels are not eyewitness accounts. Even their titles say they are not eyewitness accounts, although John 21 claims John is.
It's all about faith. Without it, it's impossible to understand the Bible. I know because I used to read it that way.
About the only honest thing you said for a long while. Yes, 'Interpretation' is about seeing By Faith' what it supposedly means as distinct from what it actually says.
This is something I call the 'Ghost Bible' which I have known about for a long time. The Believers work from a Bible they carry in their heads, not the one in their drawer, which they only refer to for a quote that looks vaguely relevant that they can use to supposedly support their Beliefs.
Bapfun showed thet very well over 'David and the Shewbread' (as well as, I believe, slavery) when it was shown what the Bible actually set out but he denied everything and said that it said what he said it did, which it didn't.
In fact, wossname just now recited what he thought the Bible said, while ignoring what it actually did say. That's even without the dismissal of contradictions with a kneejerk 'slips of memory' when a comparison of the accounts shows that such an excuse isnt good enough by a long way.
I suspect that the problem is that all this has been kept very quiet and it has been trusted that the believers won't bother to really study the Bible (though they may browse their favourite bits).
I am still astonished and bewildered that hardly anyone else seems to have looked into this. Oh sure the '2nd census' apologetic has been countered and it is generally known that the 4 BC birth and 6 AD birth don't match, but you never hear about it. And All I ever saw about the resurrection discrepancies was apologetics trying to get over them.
Vague hints of an emergence from the tomb scaring away the Tomb guard (Who moved the stone) never mind that the tomb guard is unknown to Mark, Luke and John, and doesn't do the job it's supposed to do, anyway. Jesus could have been removed long befor the guard even showed up..
The petulant 'if there were two (angels) there was one' in some book I can't remember, hoping that, if this minor discrepancy was 'explained', then it would be supposed that all the others were Explained, too.
And an old book from the 1920's that proclaimed that the Galilee John Dory's mouth would be big enough to take a Shekel.
Well, praise the Lord and Hallelujiah! It's all True!!
About the only honest thing you said for a long while. Yes, 'Interpretation' is about seeing By Faith' what it supposedly means as distinct from what it actually says.
This is something I call the 'Ghost Bible' which I have known about for a long time. The Believers work from a Bible they carry in their heads, not the one in their drawer, which they only refer to for a quote that looks vaguely relevant that they can use to supposedly support their Beliefs.
Bapfun showed thet very well over 'David and the Shewbread' (as well as, I believe, slavery) when it was shown what the Bible actually set out but he denied everything and said that it said what he said it did, which it didn't.
In fact, wossname just now recited what he thought the Bible said, while ignoring what it actually did say. That's even without the dismissal of contradictions with a kneejerk 'slips of memory' when a comparison of the accounts shows that such an excuse isnt good enough by a long way.
I suspect that the problem is that all this has been kept very quiet and it has been trusted that the believers won't bother to really study the Bible (though they may browse their favourite bits).
I am still astonished and bewildered that hardly anyone else seems to have looked into this. Oh sure the '2nd census' apologetic has been countered and it is generally known that the 4 BC birth and 6 AD birth don't match, but you never hear about it. And All I ever saw about the resurrection discrepancies was apologetics trying to get over them.
Vague hints of an emergence from the tomb scaring away the Tomb guard (Who moved the stone) never mind that the tomb guard is unknown to Mark, Luke and John, and doesn't do the job it's supposed to do, anyway. Jesus could have been removed long befor the guard even showed up..
The petulant 'if there were two (angels) there was one' in some book I can't remember, hoping that, if this minor discrepancy was 'explained', then it would be supposed that all the others were Explained, too.
And an old book from the 1920's that proclaimed that the Galilee John Dory's mouth would be big enough to take a Shekel.
Well, praise the Lord and Hallelujiah! It's all True!!
You call these "discrepancies" but there are also instances in the Bible of people seeing and hearing different things while together at the same setting.
I like the term Ghost Bible. There is another world which faith gives us access to.
You call these "discrepancies" but there are also instances in the Bible of people seeing and hearing different things while together at the same setting.
So, doesn't that make these 'instances' irreconcilably untrustworthy claims?
Quote:
I like the term Ghost Bible. There is another world which faith gives us access to.
Well the term 'Ghost Bible' does imply an imaginary one, however you like to use it.
I'm still waiting, by the way for anyone other than wossname..ah yes, Minky... to refute my examples of really sound contradictions. Dancing around the problem and piddling about with details and niggles won't get you anywhere, never mind appealing to Faith.A couple that I find really telling are
(f) the Temple -business discrepancies
(g) the 2 sermons. (Matthew and Luke).
I'll deal with the Temple a bit later.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-21-2020 at 07:36 AM..
God's ways are mysterious. We can't understand everything. It's like a piece of broken clay trying to explain the "way things are" to the potter. It's ridiculous.
If you can't produce any better argument than that, take it to Christianity forum. It's a waste of space here. We deal in actualities and sound reasoning, not Faith-brained waffle.
And you can save the refribbed 'can the clay dictate to the potter' apologetic. Which you apparently confuse with the 'Where were you when I made the heavens' bullying. You can stuff both of them, until you can convincingly show that any creator that may or may not exist is anything to do with the unreliable stories in the NT.
If you can't produce any better argument than that, take it to Christianity forum. It's a waste of space here. We deal in actualities and sound reasoning, not Faith-brained waffle.
And you can save the refribbed 'can the clay dictate to the potter' apologetic. Which you apparently confuse with the 'Where were you when I made the heavens' bullying. You can stuff both of them, until you can convincingly show that any creator that may or may not exist is anything to do with the unreliable stories in the NT.
Wait..you think you can tell people they are or are not welcome here?
Wait..you think you can tell people they are or are not welcome here?
Arq thinks he is qualified to tell people all sorts of things he is NOT qualified to evaluate.
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