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As a person who leans toward the possibility of souls reincarnating multiple times, much of what I've read on the subject includes the thought that we choose when we will come back to mortality. In some cases, it's thought that an advanced soul will often choose what appears to be hardship from a human point of view--the severely deformed child, for example--taking on the incarnation for the greater good and lessons to be learned by others from their encounters with the incarnation.
It is interesting and makes a great deal of sense, although admittedly much of this thought may stem from our desire to continue and our desire for life and death to make sense.
Wow, that is a very interesting thought, MQ. I was watching a 60 Minutes episode about healthcare in UK, where this couple were engaged in taking care of their child with severe, multiple, conditions, that was so unbelievably pityful. And the same thought occurred to me watching the parents taking care of him with patience and love, that the three of them were in some kind of a mutual contract for spiritual evolution.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 09-02-2020 at 09:31 PM..
Reason: my typo
I see. So if you said, "I knew Bob back in second grade," it means exactly what it says. But if God says, "I knew you before you were born," it means, "I conceived of you in my mind before you were born"?
Yes. He knew us intimately in his mind.
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It clearly suggests that Jeremiah existed before he was in his mother's womb.
In the mind of God, yes.
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Well, we agree on something. How about that!
Who said anything about existing as families?
That was the implication I took from you suggesting we all pre-existed with God, and were "returning" to him.
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Why does it mean "at conception"? Why not "at birth"? Why not "prior to conception"? You've decided what it means, but you can't show me anywhere in the Bible where it says that He created our spirits at conception.
He knit us in our mother's womb. That implies prior to birth.
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Actually, it's not reading anything into the text. It's simply reading what the text actually says, using your God-given intelligence to understand it, and not ignoring the parts you would prefer had been left out.
I don't mean to accuse you of any intentional misreading of it, but I do believe you have unintentionally misunderstood it based on a faulty understanding of the text. You are adding to what it actually says.
Yes. He knew us intimately in his mind. In the mind of God, yes.
Well, if that's what you believe, that's what you believe.
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That was the implication I took from you suggesting we all pre-existed with God, and were "returning" to him.
And in this statement, "you are adding to what I actually said," although you're not all that far off track if you believe there is such a thing as "the family of God."
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He knit us in our mother's womb. That implies prior to birth.
Yes, it does. But it says nothing about how long before birth. The fact of the matter is that the Bible doesn't tell us precisely when God created our spirits. My belief is that it was prior to the creation of our earth. Your belief is that it was at the moment of conception. Why is your belief any more valid than mine?
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I don't mean to accuse you of any intentional misreading of it, but I do believe you have unintentionally misunderstood it based on a faulty understanding of the text. You are adding to what it actually says.
What did I add that it didn't actually say? It said that Christ's disciples believed the man's blindness may have been a result of his having sinned. Now, you tell me when he could have sinned if he had been born blind and did not exist prior to his having been born. And while you're at it, would you mind explaining why Jesus didn't correct the flaw in their logic?
Wow, that is a very interesting thought, MQ. I was watching a 60 Minutes episode about healthcare in UK, where this couple were engaged in taking care of their child with severe, multiple, conditions, that was so unbelievably pityful. And the same thought occurred to me watching the parents taking care of him with patience and love, that the three of them were in some kind of a mutual contract for spiritual evolution.
I can pretty much go along with that. As a matter of fact, I know a number of people who would say that's spot on!
/snip/... don't mean to accuse you of any intentional misreading of it, but I do believe you have unintentionally misunderstood it based on a faulty understanding of the text. You are adding to what it actually says.
...kinda like how some like add the word alone to certain bible verses???
Well, if that's what you believe, that's what you believe.
It's based on what the word actually means. It's not a subjective belief based on what I want. It's what it means.
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And in this statement, "you are adding to what I actually said," although you're not all that far off track if you believe there is such a thing as "the family of God."
I don't really.
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Yes, it does. But it says nothing about how long before birth. The fact of the matter is that the Bible doesn't tell us precisely when God created our spirits. My belief is that it was prior to the creation of our earth. Your belief is that it was at the moment of conception. Why is your belief any more valid than mine?
Except it really doesn't imply any kind of eternality. There is no indication of conscious pre-existence.
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What did I add that it didn't actually say? It said that Christ's disciples believed the man's blindness may have been a result of his having sinned. Now, you tell me when he could have sinned if he had been born blind and did not exist prior to his having been born. And while you're at it, would you mind explaining why Jesus didn't correct the flaw in their logic?
There was also an argument asking which disciple would sit at Jesus' right hand. Another time they asked if they should call fire down on unbelievers. If you haven't figured out, we can't make doctrine based on misconceptions the disciples had. They often woefully missed the point.
It's based on what the word actually means. It's not a subjective belief based on what I want. It's what it means.
Okay, well I hope you always use it in the "correct" way, then and never catch yourself saying, "I knew him when we were just kids."
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I don't really.
Fair enough. But if we are His children and He is our Father, isn't that a family?
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Except it really doesn't imply any kind of eternality. There is no indication of conscious pre-existence.
So we may have existed and yet been unconscious? A lot of sense that would make.
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There was also an argument asking which disciple would sit at Jesus' right hand. Another time they asked if they should call fire down on unbelievers. If you haven't figured out, we can't make doctrine based on misconceptions the disciples had. They often woefully missed the point.
This is entirely different, BF. This wasn't an argument between various disciples at all. They asked Jesus a question, based on their current understanding, which was clearly that the man who was born blind could have sinned prior to his birth. If this was a false assumption, why did Jesus not correct them? If you weren't so closed-minded to any viewpoint other than your own, you would at least admit that what I've said is worth thinking about, and that it could very well imply exactly what I said it implies.
I could cite numerous instances in which early Jewish and Christian doctrines taught of the pre-existence of man. I could even tell you when the teaching fell out of favor with the churchmen of the time and why. But you'd just say, "Well, they may have believed those things but they are not explicitly stated in the Bible. And if they're true, they would be." Well, that's just not the case at all. A lot of things are not explicitly stated in the Bible which are indeed true. Truth is truth, no matter where it is found, my friend.
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A lot of sense that would make. 
