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If there is such a thing as life after death/eternal life then simply believing something will have nothing to do with it. There either is an afterlife or their is not. No amount of believing the right things in the right way will make any difference.
If there is such a thing as life after death/eternal life then simply believing something will have nothing to do with it. There either is an afterlife or their is not. No amount of believing the right things in the right way will make any difference.
Simple belief, yes, but a heartfelt belief that changes your life is another story.
Simple belief, yes, but a heartfelt belief that changes your life is another story.
Well, I met a man who's life was changed, so I can agree with you. I saw something that seemed to me to be meaningful and I would not want to take it away from him or anyone. But, that heartfelt belief affects a person's life here and now in this life and I think that is what you mean? I should add that this man did not try to prosthelytize. I actually developed a respect for him. He taught me something.
We are indeed. The appeal to how it changes people (not always for the better) is not the topic, but the morality of eternal torment is. Though I suspect that we have Done it by now.
Eternal torment for evildoers is too much. Even the worst of monsters might pay their dept in the end. And that doesn't even address the habirual short -sightedness of Christian dogma and doctrine. People would all be topping themselves to be with Jesus as son as possible (if they Really believed, that is ) and it's only this Unwritten Rule that thou shalt not polish thyself off because that's cheating and you won't get to heaven. The only short cut being martyrdom. I you get martyred, then that's ok. And you can go seek martyrdom in quite a few ways even today. Thus those evil people who behead or gun down true believers are doing a good deed by martyring the faithful and sending them to heaven.
It's like the damning and cursing of those who got Jesus on the cross, without which salvation wouldn't have happened. It was those who wanted or tried to save Jesus that were doing the devil's work, but the fact is that the average Christian 'thinks as men think, not as God thinks', and those who are a bit smarter, keep quiet about it. Their income depends upon it.
If there is such a thing as life after death/eternal life then simply believing something will have nothing to do with it. There either is an afterlife or their is not. No amount of believing the right things in the right way will make any difference.
Agreed. And NOT believing in something has as much effect, as well. We're in agreement on that.
Well, I met a man who's life was changed, so I can agree with you. I saw something that seemed to me to be meaningful and I would not want to take it away from him or anyone. But, that heartfelt belief affects a person's life here and now in this life and I think that is what you mean? I should add that this man did not try to prosthelytize. I actually developed a respect for him. He taught me something.
Anyway, drifting off topic here.
I should have added (to my post) that I absolutely get this. I have met (an been friends with) a number of Christians and we did debate the matter, but they ended up with laughing and agreeing to differ. I'm not sure that it changed their life too much. I think they may have been less grumpy about Life because it was All Good, no matter how bad. I prefer the realities to cozy delusions, but that's an individual choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Agreed. And NOT believing in something has as much effect, as well. We're in agreement on that.
It does. As remarked before now, dropping a god -belief can raise a whole reassessment of how one thinks and lives. That is what atheists Do; it is not what atheism (by definition) Is.
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