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Old 02-04-2021, 10:15 AM
 
15,794 posts, read 6,856,651 times
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Is there a conflict between spirituality and materialism that cannot be resolved? If so then many conversations here are fruitless aren’t they? We may be speaking completely different languages with 0 communication.
  1. What do you think people who describe themselves to be spiritual are like?
  2. What do you think people who do not believe such a thing exists are like?
My biased non-objective opinions.
On 2, those who do not get spirituality.
They worship Ayn Rand.
They believe the poor are poor because they are lazy.
They believe socialism is the greatest evil.
Money solves everything.

On 1. Those who describe themselves as spiritual
They come from across all socio-economic classes.
They read.
They have a lot of questions.
Are somewhat introverted.

Last edited by cb2008; 02-04-2021 at 10:59 AM.. Reason: Edited for clarity
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:50 AM
 
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In my opinion anything to do with Ayn Rand is much more political than spiritual.

I am not sure there is any validity to your classification system.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:56 AM
 
15,794 posts, read 6,856,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
In my opinion anything to do with Ayn Rand is much more political than spiritual.

I am not sure there is any validity to your classification system.
Ayn Rand is more than merely political. It is an ideology that has very little space for spirituality.
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Old 02-04-2021, 11:06 AM
 
63,364 posts, read 39,631,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
In my opinion anything to do with Ayn Rand is much more political than spiritual.
I am not sure there is any validity to your classification system.
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Old 02-04-2021, 11:42 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,280,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Ayn Rand is more than merely political. It is an ideology that has very little space for spirituality.
I am aware of that, I've read her books starting in the late 60s. Personally I don't believe that large of a percentage of non spiritual people care about her and many religious people seem to latch onto much of her ideology. You present a very lopsided view of people by placing one group with a pile of political ideology and far right philosophy. It sees that you wish to present one group in a very unfavorable view 0erhaps to make yours sound more reasonable.

That is all I have to contribute to your attempt to paint others as bleak.
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Old 02-04-2021, 12:05 PM
 
15,794 posts, read 6,856,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
I am aware of that, I've read her books starting in the late 60s. Personally I don't believe that large of a percentage of non spiritual people care about her and many religious people seem to latch onto much of her ideology. You present a very lopsided view of people by placing one group with a pile of political ideology and far right philosophy. It sees that you wish to present one group in a very unfavorable view 0erhaps to make yours sound more reasonable.

That is all I have to contribute to your attempt to paint others as bleak.
You are being unfair about my so called attempt. My main point is the void between those who get spirituality and those who don’t is real and unbridgeable. Ayn Rand is only a symbolism for the way some people view the world. Spirituality does not sit well at all with pragmatism and materialism.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
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Old 02-04-2021, 01:28 PM
 
2,400 posts, read 775,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Ayn Rand is more than merely political. It is an ideology that has very little space for spirituality.
Mostly economic, as I recall.
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Old 02-05-2021, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Michigan, Maryland-born
1,730 posts, read 731,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Is there a conflict between spirituality and materialism that cannot be resolved? If so then many conversations here are fruitless aren’t they? We may be speaking completely different languages with 0 communication.
  1. What do you think people who describe themselves to be spiritual are like?
  2. What do you think people who do not believe such a thing exists are like?
My biased non-objective opinions.
On 2, those who do not get spirituality.
They worship Ayn Rand.
They believe the poor are poor because they are lazy.
They believe socialism is the greatest evil.
Money solves everything.

On 1. Those who describe themselves as spiritual
They come from across all socio-economic classes.
They read.
They have a lot of questions.
Are somewhat introverted.

I don't think people fit as neatly into your classification system as you might think.


My husband is an Ayn Rand libertarian person, but he doesn't think all poor people are lazy, he doesn't believe socialism is evil per se just a poor economic system that goes against human nature, and he doesn't believe that money solves everything....in fact he complains that politicians think they can just throw money at problems to solve it, which is wrong in his view....he also fits into things on 1...he is introverted, he has questions, and he reads....all of which you describe as spiritual.

Really the only thing on your list that matched was that he doesn't consider himself spiritual, but I just think he is spiritual in other ways...by a different definition. He finds deep beauty in nature and scenic views of water, in bonding moments with another, in looking up at the stars.
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Old 02-05-2021, 08:53 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,153,045 times
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Well, you're picking one very small subset of the people who don't think of themselves as "spiritual", and contrasting it with a very small subset of the people who do, and trying draw conclusions about...

What?

Honestly I can't even understand the first post.
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Old 02-05-2021, 10:03 AM
 
15,794 posts, read 6,856,651 times
Reputation: 8453
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuakerBaker View Post
I don't think people fit as neatly into your classification system as you might think.


My husband is an Ayn Rand libertarian person, but he doesn't think all poor people are lazy, he doesn't believe socialism is evil per se just a poor economic system that goes against human nature, and he doesn't believe that money solves everything....in fact he complains that politicians think they can just throw money at problems to solve it, which is wrong in his view....he also fits into things on 1...he is introverted, he has questions, and he reads....all of which you describe as spiritual.

Really the only thing on your list that matched was that he doesn't consider himself spiritual, but I just think he is spiritual in other ways...by a different definition. He finds deep beauty in nature and scenic views of water, in bonding moments with another, in looking up at the stars.
My division of people is not whether they define themselves as spiritual or not but whether they get what spirituality means. If they do not get what that means it is a big gap that cannot be bridged by mere intellectualism or rationalism or persuasion. If someone defines himself as spiritual i have no questions about that.
I read Ayn Rand when I was young and was quite taken up with her philosophy of selfishness as a virtue. As i matured that did not work for me. Enlightened self-interest is not what spiritual enlightenment is about. Enlightenment arises from connectedness.
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