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Old 05-07-2008, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Netherlands
249 posts, read 531,135 times
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This seems to be something that some Christians are divided on.

Did Jesus make the old covenant of Moses obsolete.. or not.. ?


And God said…

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"Certainly, then, There occurs a setting aside of the proceeding commandment on account of its weakness and ineffectiveness. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in besides of a better hope did, through which we are drawing near to God.

For if the first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for the second.”

Hebrews 7:18

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"In his saying "a new covenant" He has made the former one obsolete and growing old is near to vanishing away."

Hebrews 8:13

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"But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains uplifted at the reading of the old covenant, BECAUSE IT IS DONE AWAY WITH BY MEANS OF CHRIST. In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts. But when there is a turning to God, the veil is taken away."

2Corinthians 3.12

---

So where does the New Testament REALLY begin.. ?


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Last edited by accelerator; 05-07-2008 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 05-07-2008, 09:34 PM
 
Location: God's Country
22,995 posts, read 34,256,841 times
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Under God's new covenant, God's law is inside us. It is no longer external set of rules. The Holy Spirit reminds us of Christ's words. The law was never intended to save people but to point out sin and point us toward Jesus.
Jesus said He did come to do away with the law, but to full fill it.
And the New Testament begins in Matthew 1:1
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:01 PM
 
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This is a great topic because it's so misunderstood by a lot of people. God is generally seen as a God of wrath in the Old Testament and a God of love in the New Testament. "Why is God so different from one covenant to the other?"

The answer is that He's not. What we see is the progression of God's relationship with people from the Old to the New. When the Old and the New are read together, and not taken separately, we can see this. His love and His wrath can be seen in both.

Throughout the Old Testament, God deals with Israel in the same way a loving father deals with his children. When they willfully disobeyed Him, He chastised and corrected them. But He always forgave them when they recognized and repented of their sins. What father doesn't correct his child, but still love them? He's the same in the New Testament. Hebrews 12:16, "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives."

God's judgment and wrath are poured out on unrepentant sinners in the Old Testament. He does the same in the New Testament. Romans 1:18, "revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness."

Jesus talks more about hell than He does about heaven in the New Testament, so God isn't any different from the Old Testament to the New. God's very nature is unchanging. Again, we're just seeing the progression of God revealing Himself throughout the Bible.

The Bible contains 66 different books, penned by more than 40 different people, on two or three different continents, over a period of about 1,500 years. When it's really studied, you can see that it's unified and without contradiction. It's about a merciful and loving God and how He deals with sinful men in a bunch of different situations. God's love for all of His creation is evident throughout both Old and New.

God also calls people in both testaments into a unique relationship with Himself because of His love and mercy. We also see His wrath on those who disobey and reject Him and worship creation and the other gods they've created themselves, because He's a holy and righteous Judge. He's not the namby-pamby Jesus, meek and mild that American Christianity has turned Him out to be just to tell people what they want to hear, so pastors can fill their pews and keep the people coming. Is Jesus meek and mild? Yes, but meek doesn't mean weak.

Because He's holy and righteous, GOD MUST deal with sin, or He wouldn't be holy or righteous. It's because of His love that He provided the greatest act of love ever by providing payment in full for the sins of anyone who repent of them and turn in obedience to His word. (John 3:16)

So, are the Old Testament laws meant for Christians today? To understand, we have to know why the Old Testament laws were given and to whom. He gave them to Israel, the nation He first chose, not to Christians. Those laws were to show them how to love, please, obey and worship God. Some of them were just to make them different from other nations, like the food and clothing restrictions. They didn't have the benefit of the life and teachings of Jesus, so this is how God chose to reveal Himself to the Jews. The dietary laws, like not eating shellfish, were never intended for anyone but the Jews. Later, God declared ALL FOOD to be clean. (Mark 7:19) Later on, in Acts 10:15, Peter has a vision about the "unclean food" spoken of in the Old Testament: "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

So, regarding the "now clean" foods, why do so many people have a hard time accepting this? Romans 14:1-23 tells us that it's because many people are not mature enough in their faith to accept it. So, when Christians are with these people (who may be Christians themselves) we are instructed not to eat this type of food because we aren't supposed to offend, or be a stumbling block, to them - even if they're wrong.

However, when Jesus came and died on the cross, that put an end to the Old Testament laws completely because Jesus, Himself, fulfilled the law in His death and resurrection. (Ephesians 2:15, Romans 10:4, and Galatians 3:23-25.)

Galatians 6:2 says that Christians are now under the law of Christ. Matthew 22:37-40 says, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." There you have it, the law of Christ in two commandments. These are how we fulfill what it is that He wants us to do.

1 John 5:3, "“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome."

When people ask if Christians have to obey the 10 Commandments, the answer is: technically, no. However, nine out of ten of those commandments are repeated in the New Testament, so, actually, the answer is yes. (The commandment to obey the Sabbath is the one not repeated.)

When we truly love God, (not just with lip-service and with words only) these commandments will be natural to us. When we love God, we will obey Him (see 1 John 5:3 above). We won't be worshipping other gods and idols. When we love our neighbors, we won't murder, lie to or commit adultery with them. And we won't covet what they have.

So, by loving God and our neighbor, having a personal, intimate relationship with Jesus, relying on the leading of the Holy Spirit, and committing all of our ways and words to the Father in obedience, everything else falls right into place. Is it easy? No, because Christians aren't yet in their glorified bodies yet. But can it be done? Absolutely, through His strength and His grace, and not our own.

Last edited by Simple Living; 05-07-2008 at 10:10 PM.. Reason: Forgot an "is".
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:03 PM
 
2,017 posts, read 5,078,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
And the New Testament begins in Matthew 1:1
LOL I love it! Simple and true! (I tried to rep you, but it won't let me rep you again so soon. I certainly owe you a few though!)
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:22 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,216 posts, read 2,257,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Under God's new covenant, God's law is inside us. It is no longer external set of rules. The Holy Spirit reminds us of Christ's words. The law was never intended to save people but to point out sin and point us toward Jesus.
Jesus said He did come to do away with the law, but to full fill it.
And the New Testament begins in Matthew 1:1
regarding to mathew , jesus (pbuh) came to fulfill the laws

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"

Christians always say as an excuse that an Old Testament law does not apply to them. According to Matthew 5:17-18, we clearly see that Jesus honored the Old Testament, and forced Christians to follow the unmodified laws of it that have not been replaced by newer ones in the New Testament.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:30 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,712 posts, read 13,423,075 times
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Default When did all of the laws become enacted?

This leaves me a bit confused. When exactly was the changeover? I know many say that it will be upon Christ's death on the cross, but does that mean the instant Jesus' last breath was drawn that the laws changed? Were the people who were previously born under the "old law" system suddenly switched over to the "new law" system or was there a sort of "grandfathering" involved?

On top of that, considering that much, if not all, of the New Testament was written after Jesus' death (I'll be very conservative and use 40 years) is it safe to say that once the Bible was written that the laws were then in effect? Or was there ample time given for circulation to get the word of mouth? Again, what of the people that kind of fell under both the old and new laws? Would it be ok to stone a woman for prostitution in the year 50 A.D? Or would they then be under the new laws? What if someone was simultaneously stoning a prostitute as Jesus drew his last breath? What happens to them?

These are the things I think about at 3:30 in the morning.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
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You'll find the Jews still go by Mosaic law, whereas Christians have it much easier.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
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Governments and a written code of laws, made religion obsolete.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
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They based many of their laws off religious laws.

Shame on them.
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Toronto; Canada
123 posts, read 303,395 times
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Thumbs down I think that the best way to think of free will is...

I think that the best way to think of the free will to obey the commandments with Christ is that the righteousness of love was now ever present in God, and our own personal righteousness needs but the good will to test us at failure to be at more subtle ethical things like the golden rule, and whether we really love this God considering He already is Love.

Christianity has been to arrogant and cocky in the Gnostic world of books of Judas, Mary Magdeleine, and the subject of the codification for prime existences of Evil anyway.
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