Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA Scary how this mentality exactly reflects those of the Nazis: Obey Hitler (or your immediate superior) and leave the consequences to him.
And there are Christians who still believe that Nazis could not be Christian.
I guess there is a reason why all dictators expect total obedience from their subjects, because total obedience replaces the individual autonomy and many people find not having to think for themselves very 'liberating'. It also is a fact that when this is done in the presence of a group it also enhances the group-identity. I guess this is why many people join cults and why I distrust organised religion.
What? Nothing about the Americans? Man, you're slipping!
Originally Posted by juj Americans suddenly ain't Christians no more?
European Christians have no problem with acknowledging that Nazis can also be Christian.
Anyone can claim any religion while they do monstrous deads.
Hell, their are people who do things like cheat on their spouse, steal from their workplace, hit their kids and still claim to be whatever religion they wish. (and this goes for all religions, in all cultures throughout the world). It just means that they are either deluded or hypocrites. I don't see why you are confused by this.
My question is how do you know if its God telling you to kill/murder? Now, the point was made that the Israelites having witnessed the miracles/plagues that God wrought to win their freedom from Egypt would have an easier time following Gods will in fighting the Caanites. However, weren't these the same Israelites who --- everytime Moses turned his back --- regressed back to their idol worshipping ways?
Though, I suppose that life was vicious back then, and is it really fair to put our 21st century outlook on them?
My original post was not about why you believe what or why you do, but whether or not you would have killed people in the "name of a god" in the early days of the Israelites. You told me you would have and I never asked you why after that. You simply explained why you would have and I just sat back stunned before presenting a scenario for better understanding.
I was trying my best to get a understanding and possibly explain why THEY the Israelites did what they did, not explain why I would or would not have. I was not imprisoned in Egypt, nor did I wonder around in the desert for 40 years..if you are asking now, if someone were to say "God told me that we should hurt anyone" I would think that person was crazy, for lack of a better term here. Would I do it now? no NO and NO, would I have partipated then? I cant answer that. I dont know, seeing all the things God did for them, if you believe they did see the Red Sea part, the plagues brought on Egypt, the ground open up and swallow people...one might have had respect for God and be more willing to do what he said do.
My question is how do you know if its God telling you to kill/murder? Now, the point was made that the Israelites having witnessed the miracles/plagues that God wrought to win their freedom from Egypt would have an easier time following Gods will in fighting the Caanites. However, weren't these the same Israelites who --- everytime Moses turned his back --- regressed back to their idol worshipping ways?
Though, I suppose that life was vicious back then, and is it really fair to put our 21st century outlook on them?
No it's probably not fair considering the times, but the impression I get is that the god of the New Testament, one of love and mercy, is the same on in the Old Testament, one of wrath and judgment. I am also told , on the other had, that he is the same ten as he is now so I take it he can still speak to people and ask them to kill in his name if the people in questioned are deemed evil and perverted. Well, kinda like how fanatical Muslims deem infidels I guess.
I am sure may of us are aware the bible, especially the first middle third, is filled with all kinds of gore and mayhem. The interesting thing is there is a god tossed in the mix, supposedly ordering all kinds of butchering.
When I have presented these passages to Christians and asked them to explain them to me, I have had some tell me that God, for example, ordered the extermination of the Canaanites because they were evil and their sinful lifestyles had run it course. So now my question is, if you, a Christian, lived in those days (you being an Israelite committed to God), would you have participated in the genocidal acts supposedly ordered by God via the "inspired" mouth of Moses or Joshua?
REPLY: God back then was quite a wrathful jealous Creator. Fortunately today, we are all under his grace but that is not to say he isnt just as well. God and his people were under servere persecution in the O.T. times and it should be a lesson that Gods plans cannot be thwarted. As for children being taken in death, they were far better off being taken to be with God in heaven than to be raised as a devout enemy of God. To answer your question however : Yes, i would participate in anything that was confirmed to be OF God because he knows and sees history from start to finish and knows whats best. And i have total total trust in that.
A question for you is : Are you going to take advantage of Gods grace and mercy in having all your perswonal sins forgiven and forgotton thru Christ, while God is still giving you grace which is an undeserved favor ?? Its only for a limited time (your earthly lifetime). Regards.
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA Scary how this mentality exactly reflects those of the Nazis: Obey Hitler (or your immediate superior) and leave the consequences to him.
And there are Christians who still believe that Nazis could not be Christian.
I guess there is a reason why all dictators expect total obedience from their subjects, because total obedience replaces the individual autonomy and many people find not having to think for themselves very 'liberating'. It also is a fact that when this is done in the presence of a group it also enhances the group-identity. I guess this is why many people join cults and why I distrust organised religion.
Oh I cannot believe that you compare God to Hitler That's like comparing roses to onions.
Obedience is the pathway to wisdom and blessing. When we conform our will to God’s, we place our hope and trust in the One who created us and loves us without condition.
No it's probably not fair considering the times, but the impression I get is that the god of the New Testament, one of love and mercy, is the same on in the Old Testament, one of wrath and judgment.
Yes, I've always had a problem reconciling the new and old testament gods. I've never come across an explanation that fits either.
I am also told , on the other had, that he is the same ten as he is now so I take it he can still speak to people and ask them to kill in his name if the people in questioned are deemed evil and perverted. Well, kinda like how fanatical Muslims deem infidels I guess.
The difference here is that when Muslims kill in the name of Allah, other muslims cheer. When someone kills in the name of God/Jesus, we immediatly dismiss them as a paranoid schizophrenic
Oh I cannot believe that you compare God to Hitler That's like comparing roses to onions.
Obedience is the pathway to wisdom and blessing. When we conform our will to God’s, we place our hope and trust in the One who created us and loves us without condition.
I am not comparing God to Hitler, I'm comparing Christians to Nazis.
The Nazis obeyed Hitler like Christians would obey God if they could hear Him directly; both are conditioned not to question their (spiritual) leader and / or their faith.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Scary how this mentality exactly reflects those of the Nazis: Obey Hitler (or your immediate superior) and leave the consequences to him.
I guess there is a reason why all dictators expect total obedience from their subjects, because total obedience replaces the individual autonomy and many people find not having to think for themselves very 'liberating'. It also is a fact that when this is done in the presence of a group it also enhances the group-identity.
I guess this is why many people join cults and why I distrust organised religion.
Americans suddenly ain't Christians no more?
I am not comparing God to Hitler, I'm comparing Christians to Nazis. 
