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Old 08-10-2021, 09:11 AM
 
7,231 posts, read 2,592,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
We do not always act per our innate sense of fairness. We can make choices as to how we act, KNOWING it is wrong. That is how we differ from animals. We feel guilt, animals don’t. if we always acted mindfully, live a spiritually inspired life, we will make better choices.
How would you know that animals don't feel guilt? I think it's pretty obvious that some of them do. Anyone who ever owned a pet dog would know that. And for all we know, ALL social animals can feel guilt, love, loyalty, etc.

There is a long tradition of having contempt for other species, and assuming they are inferior to us in every way. Just because we can't understand their languages. The same kind of contempt has also been directed at non-Western societies.
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Old 08-10-2021, 09:41 AM
 
6,849 posts, read 3,243,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
How do you expect any organization to run without money. Everything in this world has to survive somehow.
I don't. But churches are just a business like any other. No better no worse. They are a means for priests and bishops and cardinals and workers to make a living. In a greater sense they are theater. The audience pays and watches a production for which the priests earn a living. They are paying to hear music and listen to a lecture.
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Old 08-10-2021, 09:47 AM
 
6,849 posts, read 3,243,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Yes.This is because we have an innate sense of fairness, right and wrong, regardless of geography, time, or gender. Morality is a construct that serves the purpose of organizing a community but now has been replaced simply by laws.
Some people have an innate sense of fairness, some don't. Some are just out for what they can profit by and don't care how they do it. That innate sense of fairness is very malleable and can be swayed by an unfair leader to prompt all sorts of atrocities that you would think that innate sense of fairness would guard against, but doesn't.
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Old 08-10-2021, 09:55 AM
 
28,433 posts, read 9,919,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
When humans were primitive and lived in relative harmony with nature, we didn't have all this craziness and all these horrendous problems. Most of our problems today are caused by our technology. And technology is the main thing that makes us different from the other higher mammals.

I am not against technology -- it is what our species does. But it is the cause of most of our misery. And, of course, it gives us many advantages, for now.

But wars, etc., should NOT be blamed on any lack of morality. Wars are reactions to over-crowding, mostly.

And the bad behavior of individuals can largely be blamed on the anonymous and cold nature of our modern societies.
I disagree with "harmony with nature" and its only our present society that is causing it. Harmony is actually homeostasis. Basically, limiting factors. Over simplified, life uses every resource possible until it causes its own extinction or something else stops it. Like its own waste for example.

I agree with the technology thing. I think of it like a transition time. The awkward time between evolutionary steps. We are going to make the next life form (Just my prediction) and we are transitioning there now. Kind of like exiting the womb or child to adult ... just stretched over of a few thousand years.
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Old 08-10-2021, 10:19 AM
 
12,537 posts, read 4,725,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
How would you know that animals don't feel guilt? I think it's pretty obvious that some of them do. Anyone who ever owned a pet dog would know that. And for all we know, ALL social animals can feel guilt, love, loyalty, etc.

There is a long tradition of having contempt for other species, and assuming they are inferior to us in every way. Just because we can't understand their languages. The same kind of contempt has also been directed at non-Western societies.
I don't know, I am infering, as you are. Animals, lions for instance, generally hunt and kill enough for one's tribe. They dont hunt every day or for fun. They have a system of how they eat, they all dont pounce and fight for bigger share when they eat. Similar observations of different animal behavior, such as elephants and apes, IN THEIR NATURAL HABITAT, confirm that they have an ethical core. Just like humans they may violate the inner core and exhibit sick behavior. This is the very reason for the practice of mindfulness through conscious behavior and control of emotions and feelings and thoughts and possessiveness, to get us back to our inner self which is goodness and peace.
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Old 08-10-2021, 10:34 AM
 
9,272 posts, read 3,705,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
We do not always act per our innate sense of fairness. We can make choices as to how we act, KNOWING it is wrong. That is how we differ from animals. We feel guilt, animals don’t. if we always acted mindfully, live a spiritually inspired life, we will make better choices.
Apparently you know more than those who study animals. They claim they cannot know one way or the other. And few species have been actually studied fot guilt.

Guess people waste time and energy studying things when they could simply ask you.
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Old 08-10-2021, 10:37 AM
 
12,537 posts, read 4,725,646 times
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Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Apparently you know more than those who study animals. They claim they cannot know one way or the other. And few species have been actually studied fot guilt.

Guess people waste time and energy studying things when they could simply ask you.
It is morning here. Why do you wake up with so much nastiness? Think of a way you could have responded that is just neutral, not even nice. Can you manage that?
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Old 08-10-2021, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
43,331 posts, read 18,812,518 times
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When I was a kid, we always had a couple of cats. Those cats would catch a mouse and play with it until it was dead, and then not eat it.
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Old 08-10-2021, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
43,331 posts, read 18,812,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
It is morning here. Why do you wake up with so much nastiness? Think of a way you could have responded that is just neutral, not even nice. Can you manage that?
What is the nasty part of that post? I don't see a thing nasty about it.
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Old 08-10-2021, 10:40 AM
 
7,231 posts, read 2,592,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
I don't. But churches are just a business like any other. No better no worse. They are a means for priests and bishops and cardinals and workers to make a living. In a greater sense they are theater. The audience pays and watches a production for which the priests earn a living. They are paying to hear music and listen to a lecture.
You have no idea whether individual priests and ministers believe in what they are selling. You could say the same thing about teachers -- do they believe what they teach, or is it just for money? Or doctors -- do they want to cure diseases, or just make money? You could say it about anything.
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