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Old 05-26-2008, 11:17 AM
 
7,467 posts, read 7,149,184 times
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Oh, c'mon now, guys~!

Even this atheist can acknowledge that "faith," "belief," and whether or not individuals wish that a God exists is not, cannot, and should not be reduced to the realm of proveable science. It is also not delusional. Even I would have a hard time believing that all the theologians, all the philospophers from Plato, Aristotle to the existentialists; the scientists to the academicians would be quite so inclined to view mankind as being a one dimensional creature.

We're not.

And yes, even June the atheist can acknowledge that.


Take gentle ontological care.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:28 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,592,769 times
Reputation: 1540
Originally Posted by june 7th
Quote:
yes, even June the atheist can acknowledge that.
But June, you should know that even scientists (thus also philosophers) do not know if their 'evidence' is a 100% accurate.
Or to say it with the words of Einstein:
Quote:
Ethical axioms are found and tested not very differently from the axioms of science. Truth is what stands the test of experience.
Albert Einstein
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

and

Quote:
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein, "Geometry and Experience", January 27, 1921
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:44 AM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,162 posts, read 5,807,911 times
Reputation: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by HaaziqI agree.
A scientist who can only prove his hypothesis in theory has faith that he is right. Until his hypothesis can be proven in reality it stays a theory, but once it is proven the theory becomes (accepted) knowledge.
You must not know the definition of 'theory' when it comes to science. If an idea has no evidence to support it, it isn't a theory. It is nothing more than speculation or a hypothesis. It becomes a theory when it has evidence that supports it. The speed at which the planets rotate around the sun is a theory. The processes of evolution are theories. They happen, that's a fact. How they happen are theories.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:07 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,592,769 times
Reputation: 1540
Originally Posted by Haaziq
Quote:
You must not know the definition of 'theory' when it comes to science. If an idea has no evidence to support it, it isn't a theory.
But the evidence can still only be in theory, even when it is supported by another theory which already has been scientifically proven as true.
Supposedly we had no math:
If you have a theory that 3+3=6, but could not prove it, it just stays a theory.
Even when you have based this theory on MR. X's theory that 1+1=2 which only recently had been scientifically proven to be true.

Quote:
They happen, that's a fact.
Facts are only facts because we can understand them and / or because we can observe them.
This actually is only logical because we cannot explain things we do not understand.
Trying to explain things which we do not understand can only be a theory.
I mean there were these ancient philosophers where one had this theory that everything was made out of water and the other that everything existed out of things he called atoms.
With modern science we can now actually prove that they were kinda right, but back then they had no way to prove their philosophies.
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:18 PM
 
Location: USA
4,983 posts, read 5,320,018 times
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Since many are saying things in their lives prove to them there is a God, well, then things in my life prove to me there isn't one.
No God ever helped me, or did anything for me, so why should I acknowledge one.

Oh, yeah, "God isn't a wish genie." That's like saying your significant other shouldn't do anything to ever help you. No one can keep hanging on to emptiness, and the only person who was ever doing any communicating was me.
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Old 05-26-2008, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in the middle
600 posts, read 853,451 times
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Haaziq said:

"As a former Christian myself, I can tell you that when you look at it from an outsider's point of view, it is nothing more than a delusion. It's definitely all in your head."

I truly do not know how you can go around with this kind of attitude in life...how old are you again...17? Have you lived my life? Have you experienced what I have experienced? Can you get inside of my heart and soul and know what I feel? Of course you cannot. Until you can do those things I would appreciate you not telling me that my relationship with my Lord and Savior is all in my head.
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:29 PM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,268,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb in VA View Post
Haaziq said:

"As a former Christian myself, I can tell you that when you look at it from an outsider's point of view, it is nothing more than a delusion. It's definitely all in your head."

I truly do not know how you can go around with this kind of attitude in life...how old are you again...17? Have you lived my life? Have you experienced what I have experienced? Can you get inside of my heart and soul and know what I feel? Of course you cannot. Until you can do those things I would appreciate you not telling me that my relationship with my Lord and Savior is all in my head.
My opinion is also that it is in the minds of people. You are quite right though people like me are young, perhaps too young to experience what you have. There has not yet been any godly intervention, no miracle or omnious experience that has changed our lives. If there ever were any in my life then It didn't even come to my mind that a god was involved, much less the christian one. As far as I can tell god never answered any calls so I stopped calling.

Your relationship with god might be as real to you as my love for my family is to me and who knows, you may be right and tomorrow I might get a visit from the big guy but as I see it now, the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
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Old 05-26-2008, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in the middle
600 posts, read 853,451 times
Reputation: 328
Richard Dawkins:

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference."

The Bible:

Isaiah 40:31 "But those who HOPE IN THE LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."

Think I'll stick with what I'm currently doing.....
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Old 05-26-2008, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,917 posts, read 11,683,110 times
Reputation: 5307
Deb in Va wrote:
Quote:
Richard Dawkins:

"The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference."

The Bible:

Isaiah 40:31 "But those who HOPE IN THE LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."

Think I'll stick with what I'm currently doing.....
Actually the statement by Dawkins is an accurate description of the universe that we live in and he's just being realistic about what he observes. You must realize that your statement reveals that you just don't like the sound of Dawkins statement and your religious beliefs just seem like a more desireable choice. The problem with that is that we don't have a choice regarding the nature of the universe that we live in and wanting there to be a God doesn't make God real. I have no doubt that your religious beliefs are genuine and I'm not trying to belittle them, I can tell that they're important to you. I just look at this whole matter from a different perspective. I don't base my beliefs on what is comforting or makes me feel good. I honestly want to base my beliefs on what is factual and based on reality and I don't see any evidence of any kind that supports the existence of a God. That is why the concept of faith is the foundation of religion. When you really know that something is real like gravity for example, because you can observe it, then you don't need faith.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:29 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,162 posts, read 5,807,911 times
Reputation: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb in VA View Post

"As a former Christian myself, I can tell you that when you look at it from an outsider's point of view, it is nothing more than a delusion. It's definitely all in your head."

I truly do not know how you can go around with this kind of attitude in life...how old are you again...17? Have you lived my life? Have you experienced what I have experienced? Can you get inside of my heart and soul and know what I feel? Of course you cannot. Until you can do those things I would appreciate you not telling me that my relationship with my Lord and Savior is all in my head.
Yet, you accuse of atheists of 'ignoring' some imaginary evidence for your god. Trying to explain somebody's thoughts or conclusions they come to goes both ways. Moderator cut: no rude comments please

Last edited by june 7th; 05-27-2008 at 03:55 AM.. Reason: Rude comment
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