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Does it really matter Mink? If so, to what extent?
I ask because as I too have been reading from this forum for more than a few years now, considering many a version of what is or is not in the bible, or Bible, or any of the holy books, how much does it matter what is actually there or not there? Given the way people interpret what they read in all variety of ways, "allegorically," or "metaphorically" as some like to insist, or verbatim as others will, or as anyone seems to wish, what difference do the differences make?
I too was raised a Catholic, and all the while I knew of only ONE Bible, same one you have, but there again you read and understand that same Bible very differently than I do. No matter what is actually written...
It's not that it "matters so much", LM. I actually started this thread here on CD because of something I read on another forum. The thread had nothing to do with "The Bible" and it was already 20+ pages deep. But when I read what a poster wrote, it just sort of struck me, that I've read quite a number of posts throughout the years, where posters will exclaim that a certain topic/lesson isn't "biblical" or "in the Bible."
Just as an example...
I've read several threads about free will, and how the concept of free will isn't in "the bible." But it IS in *my* Bible. It's in Ben Sira (Sirach). But Ben Sira is considered to be apocryphal by Protestants simply because it wasn't included in the Hebrew bible after the first century (although it was originally written in Hebrew).
Ben Sira is considered to be one of the Wisdom Books through the RCC. The Wisdom Books are by far my favorite books, and that was true, even before I found out that they are considered to be apocryphal by Protestants.
It's just kind of interesting to me, that if a non-Catholic is struggling with an issue that they claim isn't in the bible, if their issue would be 'solved' had they put more weight on the apocrypha....
I didn't realize that you were raised Catholic, LM! That certainly explains your knowledge about it. You probably told me before, and I just didn't remember.
It's not that it "matters so much", LM. I actually started this thread here on CD because of something I read on another forum. The thread had nothing to do with "The Bible" and it was already 20+ pages deep. But when I read what a poster wrote, it just sort of struck me, that I've read quite a number of posts throughout the years, where posters will exclaim that a certain topic/lesson isn't "biblical" or "in the Bible."
Just as an example...
I've read several threads about free will, and how the concept of free will isn't in "the bible." But it IS in *my* Bible. It's in Ben Sira (Sirach). But Ben Sira is considered to be apocryphal by Protestants simply because it wasn't included in the Hebrew bible after the first century (although it was originally written in Hebrew).
By the Jews as well. According to Jewish tradition (according to chabad.org) however accurate or inaccurate that tradition may be;
The 24 books of the Bible (Tanach) were canonized by the Anshei Knesset Hagedolah (“Men of the Great Assembly”), which included some of the greatest Jewish scholars and leaders of the time, such as Ezra the Scribe, and even the last of the prophets, namely Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi. With the death of these prophets, the age of prophecy came to an end.2 Any later works are not considered Divinely inspired, and are therefore not included in the 24 books of the holy Scriptures.3
While none of the books of the Apocrypha are considered to be Divinely inspired and are therefore not included in Jewish scripture, the question of whether they have any value from a Jewish perspective is a bit more nuanced.
By the Jews as well. According to Jewish tradition (according to chabad.org) however accurate or inaccurate that tradition may be;
The 24 books of the Bible (Tanach) were canonized by the Anshei Knesset Hagedolah (“Men of the Great Assembly”), which included some of the greatest Jewish scholars and leaders of the time, such as Ezra the Scribe, and even the last of the prophets, namely Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi. With the death of these prophets, the age of prophecy came to an end.2 Any later works are not considered Divinely inspired, and are therefore not included in the 24 books of the holy Scriptures.3
While none of the books of the Apocrypha are considered to be Divinely inspired and are therefore not included in Jewish scripture, the question of whether they have any value from a Jewish perspective is a bit more nuanced.
If God had dictated it directly to some scribe, you would STILL have most of the same issues as long as humans are involved in the process. The intervening time scale and societal evolution are also daunting as regards retaining any "original intent."
If a god were actually involved, I really doubt we'd be having this discussion...
If a god were actually involved, I really doubt we'd be having this discussion...
Only if you presume and are wedded to the Omni's nonsense! For reasons we can intuit and infer from existing knowledge, the quantum realm is largely inaccessible to us at the macro level. God as Spirit exists in the quantum realm making any direct communication with us problematic even though our developing consciousness is at the quantum level of existence. We are still largely dependent upon our sensory system which places quanta beyond our reach.
By divorcing my consciousness from my sensory system rigorously, diligently, and zealously, I unintentionally accessed the quantum realm directly and encountered God. Believe what you will, I have zero doubt about it. I remain quantum entangled to this very day, IMO.
Says who? You seem to believe that if God was around He "should" do certain things...
...as if we humans are SO smart, that we know EVEVRYTHING about life.
As humans we do not know everything, but we know some basic things, and we can infer indeed that a god with certain characteristics and requirements would act consistently with those things.
Jesus even teaches this:
Quote:
Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
This is reasoning from a human standard to divine actions.
So if you are accusing us of arrogance, you are also accusing Jesus.
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