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Not sure what this even means?
Are you under the perception that religious beliefs stop a person from growing? In what sense?
Religion basically provides a moral code on how to live a morally cautious and a peaceful life. Religious guidance encourages one to be an honest person, be truthful, be just, be generous, be nice, be kind, be merciful, be humble, be forgiving, and be patient person who is kind to others, nature and animals. Religious spirituality also, strongly advised and warns you to avoid cheating, deceiving and hurting and doing injustice to others etc.
If spirituality derived from religion does not instill the above qualities into a practitioner then what’s the use of such spirituality?
Or, are you saying the above outline of religious morality and guideline is fixed like a picture of tree, and it should be changed to look like an actual tree that grows? What changes, in the name of “growth” would you like to see in religious morality and religiously spirituality?
Matter of fact, before you answer the above, I would like to know EXACTLY and PRECISELY, what does being “spiritual and not religious” even mean? What exactly does a “spiritualist but a non-religious” person believe?
Does the spirituality you practice provide a guideline on how to live your life? If not, exactly what benefit does this “non-religious spirituality” yields to you and towards the society you live in? Please provide an example or two.
Also, please provide an example of “growth” in a non-religious spiritualist” versus no growth (like a tree picture) in a religious spiritualist?
I look forward to this interesting conversation.
Me too! A lot of good points to think about.
Many of us think spirituality is a purer form of Religion. I am capitalizing Religion to indicate discussion of it in general not any particular one, at least for now. Often this is because of cultural and political practices that have developed with a sheen of religiosity, such as the caste system,slavery, crusades.
It is a mistake to attribute to Religion actions that arise from human weaknesses - greed, exploitation, fear and hate.
Religion is a pathway to spirituality. It sets up the structure for spiritual growth, such as physical and mental discipline, codes of conduct which develope inner strength and resilience.
As for the bolded, spirituality does yield a guideline on how to live one’s life, and importantly how to manage the uncertainties of life. The “benefit” such a life yields to society is not material but spiritual as well, and spirituality is not measurable. As humans with human failings a spiritual person can succumb and fail and stumble in her path. That does not stop one from striving.
Spirituality does not need religion. Religion is a construct, however, to realize spirituality. It is like the road you are driving on, with white lines drawn to mark off the width, a dividing line down the middle, with a name, Buttermilk Road or such. But really it only exists for the motorist, it is still part of the rural land, a field, on which the road is constructed and paved. If a cow were to appear she wouldn’t know the road from the field of grass she is munching on. It only makes sense to the motorist, and only until he arrives at his destination.
I am encouraged that you are asking this question having had a few exchanges regarding religion that well demonstrated the need to clarify what religion actually is...
Good start explaining religion is a construct, but I don't agree religion is necessary to realize spirituality. Not true. I am replying as one who was once religious, a Catholic, and now as an atheist who has entertained many a notion about all this sort of thing from many people who participate in this forum. Also by way of my own experiences.
To use your analogy (which is problematical as analogies always tend to be), religions are all the different roads paved by people long ago, to provide a path those people believed to be the right path. For other people to follow same as them. Typically a path leading to something beyond this life we have all been given on earth. All the roads quite different in many respects, quite the same in other respects, but most certainly common in terms of the guard rails the different religions have set up so as not to allow followers to veer into other religions or onto other paths, that may be spiritual or maybe not.
Religion really only exists for the motorist who wants to go down that road rather than another. Cows know nothing of this construct and can really care less about which path she's munching next to or which motorists are wizzing by. Long as she doesn't walk in front of any of those motorists, she's left to munch in peace generally speaking. Like some people who have nothing to do with religion would like to do. There in a pasture that might be considered spiritual by some. Just a pasture by others. Again whatever construct people will choose to adopt.
Most people admit they don't know what happens after death. As such, when you don't know where you are going, just about any path will get you there...
Another way of comparing religion and spirituality would be to use the example of patriotism. The "religious" patriot could be satisfied with just waving flags as sufficient to express patriotism. The "spiritual" patriot would have no use or desire for superficial symbols and expression, and would only seek actionable ways to support for his/her country (exposing problems that weaken us, try to bring people together, encourage voting and participation, etc.) Too many choose the easier approach, which really does nothing, and just stop there, as though they've accomplished something. Many of the churches and the religious fail along those lines.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 10-27-2022 at 03:51 PM..
Another way of comparing religion and spirituality would be to use the example of patriotism. The "religious" patriot could be satisfied with just waving flags as sufficient to express patriotism. The "spiritual" patriot would have no use or desire for superficial symbols and expression, and would only seek actionable ways to support for their country (exposing problems that weaken us, try to bring people together, encourage voting and participation, etc.) Too many choose the easier approach, which really does nothing, and just stop there, as though they've accomplished something. Many of the churches and the religious fail along those lines.
Another way of comparing religion and spirituality would be to use the example of patriotism. The "religious" patriot could be satisfied with just waving flags as sufficient to express patriotism. The "spiritual" patriot would have no use or desire for superficial symbols and expression, and would only seek actionable ways to support for his/her country (exposing problems that weaken us, try to bring people together, encourage voting and participation, etc.) Too many choose the easier approach, which really does nothing, and just stop there, as though they've accomplished something. Many of the churches and the religious fail along those lines.
To carry your analogy further, which does not work for me as Religion is unique and cannot be compared to anything other than itself, what do you suppose are the “actionable items” that spirituality can seek to do?
I think GoCardinals asked you this as well.
To carry your analogy further, which does not work for me as Religion is unique and cannot be compared to anything other than itself, what do you suppose are the “actionable items” that spirituality can seek to do?
.
I find Jesus connected religion with worship and how to worship as found at John 4:23-24.
... worship God in spirit (void of images) and worship God in truth - with 'religious truth' as Jesus taught - John 17:17
Another way of comparing religion and spirituality would be to use the example of patriotism. The "religious" patriot could be satisfied with just waving flags as sufficient to express patriotism. The "spiritual" patriot would have no use or desire for superficial symbols and expression, and would only seek actionable ways to support for his/her country (exposing problems that weaken us, try to bring people together, encourage voting and participation, etc.) Too many choose the easier approach, which really does nothing, and just stop there, as though they've accomplished something. Many of the churches and the religious fail along those lines.
This is just theory and sounds good on the paper.
Can you please provide a few real world examples that will shed light on the comparison?
I find Jesus connected religion with worship and how to worship as found at John 4:23-24.
... worship God in spirit (void of images) and worship God in truth - with 'religious truth' as Jesus taught - John 17:17
Jesus didn't teach religious truth. Jesus IS the TRUTH! The Bible as currently interpreted is NOT!
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