For those who are exhausted!

[LearnMe]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

Monterey is an absolutely wonderful place. By far my favorite place in CA. I was in the East Bay Area for 3 years. I hope to retire to somewhere similar. We lived in a place called Whitstable in the UK which is basically Monterey in the UK. I left about half my heart back there. I absolutely loved it. Who knows, we might move back there some day. Currently we are trying to find a place near Sag Harbor on long island which is another very similar sort of place. All except for the boats -in Whitstable they are fishing boats, in Sag they have been replaced by billionaires yachts and the property is about 4 times the price, which is very sad IMHO.

As much as we love it here, we're always amazed about just how beautiful so many parts of Europe can be. Most certainly including England. Our kids got the idea to spend our Christmas in Europe this year. The first time we'll be spending Christmas anywhere other than home. Looks like we'll actually be in London on Christmas day, for a few days. Then we're going by train to Belgium, Bruges and there about, because none of us have ever been there before. After we part company with the kids who have to get back for work, my wife and I will be getting a car in London and driving through the Cotswalds to Wales. Something my wife has been wanting to do for awhile, because she has some Welsh in her. Got her red hair from somewhere there it would seem...

I actually grew up in SoCal and lived there until I moved to NorCal for college. First day I got to the Bay Area, I knew I wouldn't be going back to SoCal. I'm a big fan of NorCal. Not so much SoCal. Especially now with the horrible traffic problems they have in Los Angeles. Not that we don't have some of that problem in the Bay Area too, but now that we're retired we're able to avoid the bad traffic times and directions. We're rarely in traffic anymore thanks to the freedom of retirement.

I've heard of Sag Harbor but never been. Hope you find your spot too!

[LearnMe]

Originally Posted by mountainrose

Nice post LearnMe ^^^
I was born in Marin County in the 50s — parents built a rustic home in Woodacre. Later my father got a job teaching at Stanford so we moved to Palo Alto, but we still had many connections and adventures in Marin/Mill Valley/Muir Beach&Woods — haven’t been there for over 25 years now — hope it still has some of that same magic and didn’t get ruined.

Marin is one of those places that has done an amazing job of keeping it's beauty by protecting all that open space and keeping things largely unchanged in the smaller towns and throughout the area.

Back when I lived closer to San Francisco for a good many years, I combed just about every mile of the Bay Area and beyond. Forever impressed by how there is always some place new to discover. In the small towns, bigger cities, country side, ocean side, farm lands, mountains, rivers, Redwoods. On and on. My wife and I do a lot of walking wherever the scenery beckons which is in about every direction in that area. From there NSE&W including closer to where we live now.

I'm not up that way nearly as often now that we live closer to the Monterey Bay, but whenever we do have occasion to be up that way, we always try to take advantage of seeing the sights. Most recently we enjoyed a stop in Sausalito that is still one of my favorite places up that way, among many.

An example of forever discovering new spots, after many years of exploring the area it was only a few years ago we discovered Fort Baker. What a spot. What they've done with the park area at the base of the Presidio on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge from Fort Baker is amazing too. Once a virtual wasteland back when I lived in San Francisco, they've converted it into a beautiful park area that has unparalleled vistas throughout.

I'm always delighted to serve as tour guide whenever we have guests visiting from out of state. I could go on and on, but I think I best veer back to something closer to on-topic now...

[LearnMe]

Originally Posted by mordant

I hope it works out for you. I, too, had the dream of tending to myself and my interests for a change.

But among other things, my stepson kept boomeranging. I made 3 or 4 trips during his undergrad period to metaphorically scrape him off the ground, withdraw him to spare him the incompletes, and give him a year or two to with us to decompress and have some therapy and then send him back. He got his degree with a good GPA in the end, but it took him 7 years and he has been unable to move beyond that. His ADD, autism and social anxiety mean that I am not only a father figure but an employer. I have found work he can do and do well but I can only get about 10 hours a week out of him as that's as far as his ability to mentally focus takes him. Lower paying jobs that take less mental focus he can probably do half-time but then he feels even more like a loser than he already does.

At this point we are just hoping that we can adjust his meds, get him a life coach, and that he will properly launch some fine day. But there are a lot of parents who have it even worse. They worry even more than we do of what will become of a child when they are gone. My stepson is of wonderful character and bright and has potential. There is hope. OTOH he is 30 and not getting traction yet.

I'm definitely delaying retirement at least by a year because of all this. Probably more. Maybe alot more. His biological father is starting to flake out, he used to help with medical expenses but is chafing about it now, and he has not paid off the last of the student loans despite agreeing in the divorce to pay all higher education expenses.

Meanwhile, perversely, one of my kids died and the other stepchild has estranged herself from us for reasons we can't guess and she won't discuss, which has produced knock-on effects for my wife especially. My other kid is 600 miles away and seems to think the highways only run in one direction.

So if you get all 3 of yours into and through college and they manage to build their own lives, thank your lucky stars. So far as a couple we're batting 2 for 2 although the 2 that made it we also aren't as close to as we had hoped. Still, I suppose we should be grateful.

I was always an "18 and out" kind of Dad but in the past couple of decades I've come to think getting higher education and a decent job without being saddled with massive debt is getting to be kind of unicorn-ish anymore. You have to be heavy on grants and scholarships I think, or able to pay as you go. Frankly I would be steering my kids more in the direction of trade apprenticeships if they had the slightest interest in it. Higher education is getting to be quite the scam.

Even with relatively normal healthy kids, it's very hard not to concern yourself as a parent about so many things that happen to your kids or can happen to your kids. That's an aspect about parenting that doesn't really end, but my hat is certainly off to you and others I know who have children that struggle to "launch" as you put it. Seems you have done all I can think any parent can do, which is the best you can do, but when that's really not good enough, I really don't know how best to keep the spirits up. My sincere sympathy for you and the others I know who are struggling with similar parental issues. No doubt sometimes a little too tough for even the best of parents.

[QuakerBaker]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

I'd love to tell you it gets easier QB but it doesn't!
My kids are 21, 18 and 17 and I'm only just now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
My youngest is doing her college applications right now, so fingers crossed, this time next year, all three of them will be at college. I'm definitely not wishing their lives away at all, but I almost feel guilty to admit that I'm looking forward to devoting a bit of time to myself.
And when they do leave, it's the worst thing ever - it tears you in two. It's a double edged sword. So cherish ever single second with them while you have it, because trust me, 18 years will go FAST.

When you take on this motherhood malarky, you are committing to putting others before yourself. That's just the way it is. There have been times when I've taken my eye off the ball for a moment and tried to put myself first and it's never worked out.

BUT it's the most rewarding and important job in the world. There's nothing like it. You are raising wonderful kids that will grow to be wonderful adults. So keep going QB. Sleep is important so nap when you can don't feel at all guilty about it. You can't function properly without enough sleep.

When my husband used to make comments that he'd been at work all day, I'd respond with.. 'so have I! And mine is 24 hours!

Thanks for the insights. Sleep is tougher, because I have sleep issues, but need to avoid the sleep medicine I had used before pregnancy.

You make some good points. My mother was perfect at mothering. She is in heaven now and I hope she is thinking I do okay.

Originally Posted by mordant

Sure, two isn't a magic number, depending on your available resources and health and so on.

My daughter had 3 boys before the girls started coming. I think she really wanted a girl because she has the notion that she's reversing or undoing the damage her mother did -- it gives her some kind of closure. That's understandable, but not in my view a valid input into decisions around having children. But it's none of my business, so I keep my lips zipped.

The other thing I am silent about is when she complains now about how exhausted she always is and financially strained with so many kids. And unlike you, her husband isn't the main wage earner. She's made the bed and now has to sleep in it, so to speak. Fortunately she has a wealthy mother in law willing to help out.

Also in play, my daughter has a congenital heart defect and it produces cardiomyopathy when she's under the additional physical load of pregnancy, and it gets worse with each pregnancy. So she has also been risking her life without what I feel is sufficient regard to the needs of her existing children in the service of this primal need she has to keep producing babies. THAT I have had a little bit to say about, but it isn't my place beyond expressing my deep concern and worry for her welfare. I'm quite certain she'd go for #6 if she thought she could possibly get away with it. Hopefully at 43 she knows better.

I've noted that people like this often are driven by an enjoyment of dealing with infants and experiencing early development and then tend to lose a lot of interest when the adolescent years come along and children no longer adore you like they used to because they're differentiating. My daughter is no exception to this, unfortunately. I've had my oldest grandson spend a few days here and he said in so many words he just doesn't get any focused attention. He's also HF autistic and ADD and seems kind of on his own with it. I spent a few months tutoring him remotely and it seemed like more of a lifeline for him than it should have been.

Being a parent is a continuum and a tradeoff like everything else. My wife had 2 of her own and was also contemplating #3 but her first marriage, like mine, wasn't stable and she stood down. And in retrospect, TBH, as much as she loves her children beyond measure and would be devastated if anything happened to either of them, the outcome with both of them makes her wonder if she should have had any to begin with. These two feelings are not incompatible.

There's also just the general state of the world to factor in. It's wartime. Fuel and food shortages and other extrinsic shocks are very much on the horizon. People generally don't factor that in; arguably maybe they should. There are ethical questions around bringing children into constrained circumstances where it might be hard at times to provide for even basic needs.

It sounds to me like you're on much firmer ground than I was and you certainly should do whatever you think is best. I'm not really advocating for smaller families per se. There are some couples who probably would be do well having an even dozen for all I know. My experience is just my experience. There are too many variables to make hard and fast rules.

One of the great ironies of life, to me, is that our experiences in relationships / family/ children is necessarily a very small sample and it's hard to generalize from my experience to you or anyone else. You do you, but just understand that loving your role and the idea of expanding it doesn't guarantee that it's a good idea in the current on-the-ground circumstances. And in my view at least, there's no reliable actor on your behalf tipping the scales in your favor.

You and your husband will, I'm quite certain, make the right decisions, for you, and I will be the very last person to judge your decisions. These are just my experiences and observations, for whatever they may or may not be worth.

I am sorry to hear some of the issues your family has had to deal with.

I've had it lucky in a lot of ways....both boys are healthy and I don't have to worry about money.

I probably won't go for a 3rd as I had to have C sections and feel like a failure for not being able to give natural births and then anxiety over that process. Then feeling like I lost my looks due to the scars from that....I know that sounds stupid, but...

We had our first unexpectedly...and I was young. My husband is older and so when I meet his friends, I often feel out of place as I am 21 and he is 33, and his friends are his age...I don't know if that makes sense...I get along well with his friends, but they are all college graduates and smart and I feel you know...different.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

I probably won't go for a 3rd as I had to have C sections and feel like a failure for not being able to give natural births and then anxiety over that process. Then feeling like I lost my looks due to the scars from that....I know that sounds stupid, but...

We had our first unexpectedly...and I was young. My husband is older and so when I meet his friends, I often feel out of place as I am 21 and he is 33, and his friends are his age...I don't know if that makes sense...I get along well with his friends, but they are all college graduates and smart and I feel you know...different.

I married at 19 (although to another 19 year old) and our daughter was born 2 years later. So I kind of know the territory, albeit obviously not from the viewpoint of a mother.

Twelve years is not that big of a difference in years but at this point it is a large difference in terms of percentage (which will, of course, decrease with each passing year). Your husband and his friends are apt to be more confident and experienced at life and probably will have at least the potential to know themselves somewhat better as well. You must be careful not to succumb to thoughts of being "less than". These would be natural feelings to have, but they would be wrong. You must give yourself time. You'll grow into yourself, but it can't be rushed.

There's a difference between a college education and intelligence, so I hope you don't see those folks as smarter than you. They might know more about some things in their specialty subjects, but you might already be beyond them in terms of important aspects of wisdom / maturity. I can tell you're a thinker. That gives you a leg up right there, on average. Don't worry about holding your own though, or things like that. Worriers tend to do that. I know -- I'm married to one!