Are you REALLY an Athiest? This is for you... (atheist, quote, believe)

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by Jackyfrost01

Amazingly enough I actually agree with KD on this. Atheists believe in NO GOD. If you think there could be something then you aren't athiest. Simple as that.

Nope.

Agnosticism is a position on knowledge (I don't know whether there is a god or not)

Atheism is a belief position (So, if I don't know that there is a god, I won't beleive in it)

That's the simple logic behind atheism. Of course there's the question of evaluation fo the evidence, First cause and the 'which god' argument, but essentailly, the burden of proof is on the theist to show good reason to believe in a god and, if they can't do that, it logical to disbelieve in it. That's all that is needed for atheism.

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by LBSer

well... for one. i will not tolerate abuse in my life. i am a catholic but if my future hubby lay a hand on me, or abuse me in any way, emotional, psychological..etc. it is over. he is out of the house and my life. i am not rihanna. secondly, if you DONT understand the free will, the power of choice that God gave us(it is the very power that makes u feel that way), then it is futile to explain.

God actually promised a bed of roses in the afterlife. again, you dont believe it so....

We have the 'problem of evil' argument again.

my point is... are you blaming God to what is happening around the world? you do not look at the fact that whatever is happening now, good or bad.. is because of each and every one's own choice?

Exactly. We do not blame God for what is happening because we don't believe that there is one. Yes, we do think that what happens is because of our choices - apart from natural effects that are nothing to do with us.
There is no sign of a 'hand of god' in our affairs, just our 'choices'. So there is no good reason to believe in any god.

As to natural effects that are nothing to to do with us, then they must be down to God. If He controls them, why do we get natural disasters? The only thing that the believers can do is talk vaguely of God teaching us a lesson. We (atheists) at least don't have to explain natural disasters away in such a self - decieving manner.

i have a better analogy for you. your analogy with the abuser sucks. i hope you have kids of your own. otherwise this is gonna be futile again. im not a parent myself but:

parents ALWAYS want the best for their kids right?! but we can only guide them, teach them to live a good life. how they live their lives is up to them. parents cant be with their kids 24/7. all you can do is TRUST them. but as it is, your kids do drugs, early pregnancy, and those stuff. do you blame yourself that it happen to your kid? KNOWING you did everything in your power to stray them from anything bad that might happen to them? do you believe your kids did it on their own choice and free will? and thus, whatever the result of their good or bad choice they deserve. they did it to themselves.

The parent learning curve analogy doesn't work, because it can only be taken so far. For one, parents are not like God in that their abilities are limited. Sometimes they cannot help their kids by waving a magic wand. God can, but doesn't.

Axiom: Why is there so much evil? There is no sign that an all powerful God is doing a darn thing about it.

For another thing, parents may punish their kids but they do not do it by putting them in a cellar full of burning coal for the rest of their lives. They do not flood their playroom with water and let them drown just to let them know they're still about. They do not let the ceiling fall in and bury them just because they broke open a gumball machine.

The leaning curve argument doesn't work because it is ineffective, way out of proportion and often pointless. The only explantion that works is that stuff happens because of us and because of natural effects and that is because, on all evidence, there's only us and natural effects. There is no sign of God at all.

This Problem of Evil/Free will argument ought to have been long over, but we still get it trotted out.

Axiom - Free Will does not get God off the Hook.

[Konraden]

Why in God's name is a 12 month old thread dug up?

[AREQUIPA]

Perhaps its because there are far too few new threads on the forum. The Religion one moves a lot quicker.

In any case, the arguments are still valid and need to be made, even though the whole debate should have been put to bed long ago.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by laysayfair

I am an atheist. If I ever decide to believe in supernatural beings I think I would be partial to Zeus and the gang. At the very least I would believe in many gods, not one.

Absolutely, at least the ideas of Gods in the plural playing with us and treating us like pawns in a divine game , and just as squabbling , angry, lustful and playful as humans makes a lot more sense. I just saw "The Odyssey" at the theatre recently and watching the Gods treat us like little puppets according to their whim was a little more satisfying in terms of logic regarding the idea of any supernatural beings actually existing. Now those are Gods I can relate to and in our own image !

I was always partial to Athene and Artemis myself !

[mgt04]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I was always partial to Athene and Artemis myself !

For some reason I always imagined if Athena existed, she'd be super hot.

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by mgt04

For some reason I always imagined if Athena existed, she'd be super hot.

Somehow, she always turned me on more than Aphrodite. I have a Thing for bluestockings..

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

Somehow, she always turned me on more than Aphrodite. I have a Thing for bluestockings..

Men of taste obviously !

[dobeable]

Originally Posted by Konraden

Why in God's name is a 12 month old thread dug up?

2 years alter more like it ,look at the OP date

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

Atheism is a belief position (So, if I don't know that there is a god, I won't beleive in it)

Atheism is a religion, like OFF is a TV channel.

I know there are no deities. Done