What is a Human Being? (God, heaven, evolutionary, created)

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by june 7th

We are self reflective. We are the only creatures that know that we know. (Think: Descartes.)

We are the only creatures for whom striving for, and obtaining meaning in our lives carries any real significance and importance.

It is totally arrogant to believe that humans are the only creatures that are self reflective. Apes, dolphins, right whales, and elephants for example not only show a high level of intelligence for the 'animal' kingdom, but they also make displays that show that they are possibly thinking, reflecting, contemplating, etc.

This question is totally philosophical at the moment because there is no way to answer it. We simply cannot tap into the minds of other animals and see what is going on with them. We cannot talk to animals to ask them.

In my opinion it is the ego that separates us from them. Remove the ego and we'd be left with the id; we'd then be just like all of the critters on the planet (possibly).

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

What I don't see is that there is anything more to the brain than a biological process. There is a biological reason for neuroepinephrine, dopamine, seratonin, and so on and so forth. June, you work in an industry that is very familiar with this and so you also fully recognize what happens when people do have a chemical imbalance. But, why even need a chemical if things are not biological?

What it all boils down to are atoms. Atoms bond to create molecules. Molecules bond to form everything. Chemistry is the science of that. In particular, organic chemistry as far as biology is concerned.

[june 7th]

Originally Posted by K-Luv

It is totally arrogant to believe that humans are the only creatures that are self reflective. Apes, dolphins, right whales, and elephants for example not only show a high level of intelligence for the 'animal' kingdom, but they also make displays that show that they are possibly thinking, reflecting, contemplating, etc.

This question is totally philosophical at the moment because there is no way to answer it. We simply cannot tap into the minds of other animals and see what is going on with them. We cannot talk to animals to ask them.

In my opinion it is the ego that separates us from them.

Read the scientific and psychological literature as regards what we know (or don't know) conclusively about higher functioning primates.

I absolutely agree with you that there are animals (chimps, apes, dolphins and some birds) that display, possess high levels of intelligence relative to their species. However, there is a big difference between an animal's ability/intelligence for self recognition versus self cognition. One says "I can recognize myself" (when the animal observes itself in a mirror) as opposed to "I am able to think about myself. I am introspective in my capacity to know that I know." While higher level functioning primates can self recognize, they cannot, (that I am aware of) self reflect as regards their own sense of self.

I completely agree with you that it is the existence of the ego that is the defining factor. It is the ego that allows us, as humans, to say "I am" and "I know that I know." (self reflect.) Animals cannot. Higher ordered thinking in primates may parrallel that of humans, but it stops short in terms of their abilitly to self process.

As such, animals lack the capacity to form meaning in any higher sense. Man can. Man is capable of attributing meaning (and thinking abstractly) in a spiritual sense. Animals cannot.

--At least so I have come to understand. If I am wrong, I most certainly welcome the opportunity to reallign my thinking on the matter.


Take gentle self reflective care...

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by june 7th

We are self reflective. We are the only creatures that know that we know. (Think: Descartes.)

The fact that we are the only creatures that we know of who are self reflective immediately makes it inconsequential.
I mean we measure the intelligence of other beings to human standards, which is the same as saying that Italians are unintelligent because they speak Italian instead of Dutch.

We are the only creatures for whom striving for, and obtaining meaning in our lives carries any real significance and importance.

Which also can be seen as a handicap, because only beings who strive for these goals divide other beings into 'superior' (read: as intelligent as us humans) or inferior (not intelligent as us humans).
I find it not surprising at all that humanity is the only species who believes itself to be created in God's image, thus believing ourselves to be superior to all other beings in nature.

[june 7th]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

The fact that we are the only creatures that we know of who are self reflective immediately makes it inconsequential.
I mean we measure the intelligence of other beings to human standards, which is the same as saying that Italians are unintelligent because they speak Italian instead of Dutch.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by june 7th

Just because you can't understand another being, does it mean that it is unintelligent.
Believing that animals have no ego equals believing that human babies cannot develop an ego, while we know that chimps can reach the intelligence level of a 6 year old human child.
So chimps at least have the capacity to develop an ego.
Maybe they never developed an ego in the wild because having an ego can be seen as a mental handicap; like many autistics can do amazing things, but still are socially handicapped.
I would not be surprised that humanity could be seen as autistic by other beings that have no problem to live harmonically with nature, because humanity seems incapable to live in harmony with his natural surroundings.

Intelligence is not based upon the numbers of the brain’s neurons, but how many CONNECTIONS we forge between them, linking one concept, one neuron with another, in a shimmering, self-aware neural net.
Alan Moore

[cleatis]

Originally Posted by Fishy

what is a human being other then a life form that is produced by humans. what makes its life more valuable then say (cringes with bad examples) a dog or a horse (ill stick with mammals)

is it intelligence, emotion, desires, ambitions? or is it that in the future, with growth it will have the ability to maintain these traits?

im not looking for a textbook answer, im looking for your opinion. and id prefer to keep religion out of this too (no saying because a human has a soul)

I don't think we are that different really. We have better brain power and a few things like that, but to me we are essentially the same thing.

Considering that we have societies; I think that we simply domesticate ourselves into said society much like we domesticate a dog or a horse at home.

[John1701]

We are different from animals in that we can reason and we can love. Also, although some may not want to hear it, we are made in the image of God, and animals aren't.

[BILBO22]

How presumptuous of you to assume that animals are not made in God's image. All of this nonsense thinking is revolting!
Humans are different from other life forms on a case by case basis. We are not better, don't have higher morals, and aren't more intelligent than others. We are just different. Many of us just choose to occupy our time with meaningless arguments about the meaning of life, or what makes us different. That doesn't make us good or bad.
What separates humans from other life forms? That is a hard question, because we know so little about other life. We spend so little of our resources on studying what other life forms are about. We think that we understand who we are because someone told us who we are or we read it somewhere. We really are just like any other living thing. One guess is the fact that we plan things more. We take into account the passage of time. We spend less of our resources living in the moment. In most other life forms, survival is foremost the first action. We have crushed most every living threat over the ages so we don't have to stay as focused on that.
We respond to events in our surroundings just like every other life form. Survival in the key. When survival is not paramount, respect and dignity may take precedence.

[HistorianDude]

Anybody who believes animals neither reason nor love have never owned a dog.

[Nea1]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

Anybody who believes animals neither reason nor love have never owned a dog.

So true, and they love unconditionally even when treated horribly.