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Wow, I think you totally misunderstood me. I asked what YOU meant by "tolerate." I said that most people today mean something different by "intolerant" than what "intolerant" has normally meant.
When people say Christians are intolerant, they do not mean they will "tolerate" their views; what they mean is that Christians will not affirm that the opposing view is right and good. That is not toleration. I have to by definition disagree with your view and say you are wrong in order to tolerate your view! I am not redefining what intolerance is; I am simply saying that many people are in fact doing that. I don't think your definition is necessarily wrong or insufficient. I only asked what you mean by "tolerate." Am I tolerating your view if I say your view is wrong? Am I tolerating your actions if I say they are wrong? Or must I affirm your actions/views in order to "tolerate" them (whatever that means)?
Can you answer this: What is the difference, in your opinion, between being "judgmental" and being "intolerant"?
I'll say this..Being tolerant is accepting others point of views, but that doesn't mean you have to agree with those views.
When I say you are wrong that is intolerant, but by saying I believe you are wrong simply means I disagree with your views. That is tolerant.
We are all entitled to our beliefs, and there are as many as there are people on this earth.
If I told you that you are evil because you do something I do not agree with, even though it is accepted in society, then I am making a judgement of your character based on my views.
I'll say this..Being tolerant is accepting others point of views, but that doesn't mean you have to agree with those views.
When I say you are wrong that is intolerant, but by saying I believe you are wrong simply means I disagree with your views. That is tolerant.
We are all entitled to our beliefs, and there are as many as there are people on this earth.
If I told you that you are evil because you do something I do not agree with, even though it is accepted in society, then I am making a judgement of your character based on my views.
Thank you for answering my questions.
When you say "accepting" other views is tolerant, do you mean that I must agree that your view is as equally valid as my view?
So, you think if I say you ARE wrong, then that is intolerant, but if I proceed to say, "From my own personal point of view, I think you are wrong" then that is not intolerant, right?
You seem to think that all judgments on a persons character are wrong. Suppose that you have a spouse and children, and a man rapes both your wife and children, and kills your wife in front of your children, video tapes it all, and beats your children to death. I think you know that sick things like this happens in the world all the time, even though it may not be so extreme and radical. Would you consider that person "evil" or "wrong"? Would it be intolerant to say that should absolutely NOT happen to anyone? Obviously, this sort of thing is not accepted in OUR society. Why does that even matter though? Since when is society normative or authoritative? Nazi culture and society said it was fine to exterminate the Jews, so was that "right" just because it was accepted in their society? I don't think such subjective and relative theories of morality can hold up under the weight of reality.
I can only sit here and ask myself why there is a denomination called "Southern Baptist"? Why have I never heard of "Northern Baptist"? I used to ask myself that as a kid. My only answer is that Southern Baptist implies a section of the Protestant [Baptist] faith that also embraces the Southern lifestyle.
There is a Northern Baptist denomination. Their proper name is American Bapstis Churches, USA. American Baptist Churches USA
John D. Rockefeller was another well-known Northern Baptist.
Northern Baptists hold to the historic Baptist ideals of freedom of conscience, separation of church and state and the ability of all people to interpret God's Word on their own.
When you say "accepting" other views is tolerant, do you mean that I must agree that your view is as equally valid as my view?
So, you think if I say you ARE wrong, then that is intolerant, but if I proceed to say, "From my own personal point of view, I think you are wrong" then that is not intolerant, right?
You seem to think that all judgments on a persons character are wrong. Suppose that you have a spouse and children, and a man rapes both your wife and children, and kills your wife in front of your children, video tapes it all, and beats your children to death. I think you know that sick things like this happens in the world all the time, even though it may not be so extreme and radical. Would you consider that person "evil" or "wrong"? Would it be intolerant to say that should absolutely NOT happen to anyone? Obviously, this sort of thing is not accepted in OUR society. Why does that even matter though? Since when is society normative or authoritative? Nazi culture and society said it was fine to exterminate the Jews, so was that "right" just because it was accepted in their society? I don't think such subjective and relative theories of morality can hold up under the weight of reality.
If you insist on brings strawman arguments into the discussion, then I can't help you.
Can you do me a favor and point out my strawman? It doesn't help me to understand your view if you just say you can't help me. Why would I ask all these questions and then proceed to build and knock down a strawman? It would be more helpful if you clarified your view and showed me how I was misrepresenting you. I asked two questions in my last post to clarify your view. I basically tried to restate your view in order to make sure I understood it correctly. I don't feel like I am creating strawmen; I am simply trying to see what you are purporting and respond to it. You made the statement earlier that alot of religious people are judgmental, and you seemed to imply that they were intolerant of other worldviews, and you included Christians in this judgmental/intolerant attitude. I am simply trying to figure out why you think that Christians are judgmental/intolerant. I am trying to find what you think "intolerant" or "judgmental" even means.
I really don't even know how I built a strawman in the first place, because I basically just asked clarifying questions...wouldn't it be better to respond to the questions than just dismiss my questions by saying I am misrepresenting you?
Can you do me a favor and point out my strawman? It doesn't help me to understand your view if you just say you can't help me. Why would I ask all these questions and then proceed to build and knock down a strawman? It would be more helpful if you clarified your view and showed me how I was misrepresenting you. I asked two questions in my last post to clarify your view. I basically tried to restate your view in order to make sure I understood it correctly. I don't feel like I am creating strawmen; I am simply trying to see what you are purporting and respond to it. You made the statement earlier that alot of religious people are judgmental, and you seemed to imply that they were intolerant of other worldviews, and you included Christians in this judgmental/intolerant attitude. I am simply trying to figure out why you think that Christians are judgmental/intolerant. I am trying to find what you think "intolerant" or "judgmental" even means.
I really don't even know how I built a strawman in the first place, because I basically just asked clarifying questions...wouldn't it be better to respond to the questions than just dismiss my questions by saying I am misrepresenting you?
I thought I had clarified my understanding of the meanings of those views the best I can... I did not say nor do I think all judgements are wrong. Some judgements are positive. They are wrong only when affect others lives in a negative way, and even then it depends on circumstances.. For instance the signs the WBC use to picket military and gay funerals are negative, and that cult is intolerant of anything outside of their own views If I say you are an intelligent person that is still a judgement.
We all make judgements, but most of us do not try to force them on others.
I agree that we all make judgments. I do not think you should try to "force" your beliefs on someone else. I am a Christian, and I believe it is a fact that if you reject Jesus as Savior and Lord through unbelief, then you will go to hell. You might think that is intolerant or judgmental. You have the right in a sense to disagree with me, but I do not think that makes YOU intolerant or judgmental. Now, if I meet you and tell you I am a Christian and you immediately write me off, then I would say you are being judgmental. If I say people who reject Jesus will go to hell, and you say I do not have the right to say that or purport my view, then you are being intolerant. Intolerance is when Christians all over the world go to prison simply because they are Christians. There are people in the US who would like to have it that way, and that is intolerance. Just because my view is an exclusive view, that does not mean it is wrong or intolerant or judgmental. Back to the thread, just because I am Southern Baptist does not mean I am judgmental or intolerant of other views. I make judgments as to whether other views are right, and obviously as a Southern Baptist, I think that Southern Baptists hold closest to the Bible (at least true Southern Baptists), so I necessarily think other views who stray from this view is wrong. You are what you are, and I would think you believe people who not believe like you probably are not right. Otherwise, why in the world would you believe what you do?
Well in short, what I meant by "judgemental", is for example: You are a Baptist and you learn that I do not go to church, nor am I baptized. You don't want anyting further to do with me for those reasons.
I have a couple more questions to throw out there, just out of the sake of my own curiosity & wanting to understand various people's beliefs:
1. If Baptists believe what comes straight from the Bible is the absolute truth, why do they go to church service? I mean, wouldn't the word of The Lord be altered somehow by the preacher giving the service? Wouldn't it be better if they just read it themselves at home?
2. Does God really care what denomination anyone is?
Well in short, what I meant by "judgemental", is for example: You are a Baptist and you learn that I do not go to church, nor am I baptized. You don't want anyting further to do with me for those reasons.
Some are this way but they should not be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aamazing75
1. If Baptists believe what comes straight from the Bible is the absolute truth, why do they go to church service? I mean, wouldn't the word of The Lord be altered somehow by the preacher giving the service? Wouldn't it be better if they just read it themselves at home?
The Bible commands us to assemble with other believers. That fellowship is important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aamazing75
2. Does God really care what denomination anyone is?
Just wondering...
No, as long as its a denomination that agrees on the fundamentals, being the virgin birth, death, burial, resurrection, salvation by grace through faith and repentance. Everything else is trivial stuff.
I don't think I would say that everything else is "trivial stuff." Christian theology is interrelated and interconnected. Our view of God affects our view of salvation, just like our view God affects our view of hell.
As far as someone who finds out you do not go to church and then does not want to have anything to do with you, I would not only question what denomination they are; I would question whether they are really even a Christian at all...
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