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Just in case no one want to click on the link, here is the verse which explains a lot
1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Yeah the bible really reliable... Not.....credible...never...Practical? You gotta be kidding me. To be taken literally.... never.
Revelations 13:1 Then the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns, seven heads, and ten royal crowns on its horns. On its heads were blasphemous names.
This is only one of the hundreds of nonsensical things I've seen written in that old book
No, I'm really not kidding. I see we have differences there, but I'm confident with my study of the Bible.
In the beginning of Revelation it says that it was a revelation presented in signs to John. Therefore, I don't take it to mean a literal dragon and a literal beast with ten horns, etc. It is symbolic. Revelation 17:12 lets you know that the 10 horns mean 10 kings. You can also look to the book of Daniel for insight of Revelation. That whole prophecy in Revelation is one that is being fulfilled in our time...just watch the news and the political arena.
I think there is another thread on this topic, though.
So what you are saying is that some of the things written in the bible are symbolic and some are literal. I read most of revelations the other day out of curiousity, and noticed that the writers seemed to be obsessing on numbers seven and twelve. Any idea why?
So what you are saying is that some of the things written in the bible are symbolic and some are literal. I read most of revelations the other day out of curiousity, and noticed that the writers seemed to be obsessing on numbers seven and twelve. Any idea why?
Seven in the Bible means complete, we have seven days of the week, notes of music, seven colors in the rainbow, Jesus said "I am" seven times. Six is mans number one short of complete, add God, then you have seven, complete. Twelve represents the twelves tribes of Israel. If you really want to understand the book of Revelation, I think you need to read the whole Bible, I don't anyone can read just that and understand it.
Seven in the Bible means complete, we have seven days of the week, notes of music, seven colors in the rainbow, Jesus said "I am" seven times. Six is mans number one short of complete, add God, then you have seven, complete. Twelve represents the twelves tribes of Israel. If you really want to understand the book of Revelation, I think you need to read the whole Bible, I don't anyone can read just that and understand it.
I have to agree with you ILNC, and Beeveenh and Mams...and whoever else said something along the same lines. Maybe I can relate my own story to this.
Sanspeur, I did the same thing you did before becoming a Christian. I read Revelation and it blew my mind. I remember thinking "what in the world is this crap?" It made absolutely no sense to me, so I went on about my business living in my own selfish little world and ignoring the tug of war going on inside of me.
So, when I finally did get saved and even well after that, I started praying for peace in my life and Biblical clarity. I started slowly, and NOT with Revelation. I read and studied, as well as listened to others preaching and speaking. I started with reading books from Billy Graham rather than the Bible.
I worked up to it, and when I got to the Bible....my prayers had been answered. Not only had I received the peace, but the Biblical clarity was more than I ever expected. Now, all I want to do is absorb God's Word....especially prophecy.
It's really true that discernment comes through the Holy Spirit, AFTER you have accepted Christ. I'm not saying people shouldn't read the Bible, but without the Holy Spirit you have to depend on other's and their interpretations, and I really feel that's where all the problems come in with separation of denominations and churches.
Most people don't search the Word of God for their own understanding...they rely on others to tell them. If they just go through the motions of listening to the Pastor, going to church and believing that they are saved by mumbling a few words and never cracking open the Bible....then they are deceiving themselves.
So what you are saying is that some of the things written in the bible are symbolic and some are literal. I read most of revelations the other day out of curiousity, and noticed that the writers seemed to be obsessing on numbers seven and twelve. Any idea why?
Since the Bible is book of both history and prophecy, it is both literal and symbolic. The context of the scripture usually reveals which it is. However, I take the symbolic to be just as important as the historical...it has meaning. So I think when I have used the word literal I may be misleading. I don't take the symbolism in the prophecies literal, but I do take their meaning to be true. So in Revelation the battle of Armeggedon revealed as a vision will truly happen...but not a literal dragon...Satan is the dragon. Does that make sense. It is awful hard to explain.
As for the numbers, there is significance in many numbers used. Seven, as ILNC, already posted signifies completeness. Twelve was the number of apostles, the twelve tribes of Isreal...it seems to represent a complete, balanced, divinely constituted arrangement.
Since the Bible is book of both history and prophecy, it is both literal and symbolic. The context of the scripture usually reveals which it is. However, I take the symbolic to be just as important as the historical...it has meaning. So I think when I have used the word literal I may be misleading. I don't take the symbolism in the prophecies literal, but I do take their meaning to be true. So in Revelation the battle of Armeggedon revealed as a vision will truly happen...but not a literal dragon...Satan is the dragon. Does that make sense. It is awful hard to explain.
As for the numbers, there is significance in many numbers used. Seven, as ILNC, already posted signifies completeness. Twelve was the number of apostles, the twelve tribes of Isreal...it seems to represent a complete, balanced, divinely constituted arrangement.
Actually, none of what I read in the bible makes much sense to me... It seems to me that interpreting it to actually have some meaning in today's world would be guess work.
1:20 The secret meaning of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven gold lamp stands is this: the seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches, and the seven lamp stands are the seven churches."
14:1 Then I looked, and there was the lamb standing on Mount Zion! With him were 144,000 people who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
14.3 They were singing a new song in front of the throne, the four living creatures, and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
So then I see that God keeps track just like Santa, and all but 144,000 are going to hell....Geez that's not very many!
I was actually reading revelations looking for the prophecies you and others say have happened....So far...Nada
The fundamentalist argument against the scientific assertion of the great age of our planet—to the effect that God created the earth only about 6,000 years ago, including fossils embedded in rocks - is unworthy of serious discussion. If we begin with the assumption that God can do anything he pleases, then of course he could have made the world 6,000 years ago, or last Tuesday, and planted misleading evidence suggesting it was billions of years older....Steve Allen,
This argument is hardly worthy of serious discussion. First, the Bible does not put a date on the creation of the universe. Second, the Bible does not say, and no serious Christian teaches, that God created the earth with fossils embedded in the rocks to fool unbelieving scientists.
But you can count the generations from Adam to Jesus and from Jesus to now. If Genesis is correct, Adam and Eve lived with dinosaurs.
I guess you can count the generations in the bible alright, but it's just an old book written by men long ago...Lived with dinosaurs huh? You really think so, or are you just pulling my leg?
I'm going to leave the fossil record for now, if you want an example, just look at some of the posters. There is little doubt that all living things on Earth share one common ancestor, in the Darwinian sense. But there is a large amount of empirical data, excluding fossils, that we did come from a common ancestor. One major indicator of a common progenitor is that all organisms share common mechanisms for giving their offspring inherited information. DNA for one and which uses this information to control cellular processes then there is RNA and ribosomes, whereby genetic instructions are carried in the DNA and are translated into proteins.
You also haven't shown anywhere any bible prophecy is true. The problem with biblical prophecies is that they are to vague. The fact that the 'God's people' took back part of Israel in 1948 that means nothing or any of the other prophecies. Biblical prophecies don't give the exact date of when these events will happen, they don't give the names of the people involved etc. A prophecy which could actually be taken seriously would be one that is very specific about what would actually happen, and all of what was said came true. I could make a 'prophecy' that the Yankees will win the world series and then the next year the Yankees win the world series, that doesn't mean my prophecy has been fulfilled.
I have no idea how you believe Bible prophecies are to vague. God tells us very clearly that in the last days. In other words, near the end of time. The Jewish people would return to the land of Israel. They would first retake Southern Israel, and secondly they would retake Jerusalem. The Bible tells us that at this same time Jerusalems East Porch Gate would remain sealed until the prince to comes would open it. (The East Porch Gate remains sealed today.) The Bible tells us that in this time, the returning Jews would be surrounded by enemies, and world attention would be focused on the control of Jerusalem. Also the Bible tells us that when the Jews return, they would never be pulled out of their land again. The fact that the Jews took back south Israel first, fulfilled the prophecy found in Zechariah 12:7 in which God said Judah would be saved first. And the fact that the Jews retook Jerusalem second in 1967 fulfilled the prophecy of Zechriah 12:6 in which Jerusalem obviously would be saved second. Now, there is no other time in history when such events occured. Only in the day we live are these prophecies being fulfilled, and because of this, only now can these prophecies apply. Your Yankees prophecy falls far short of the details given in the Bible for the return of the Jews to Israel. The East Gate prophecy alone has four parts to that prophecy that had to be fulfilled. The orginal Gate had to still exist, then a porch Gate had to be added to the orginal Gate, then the Porch Gate had to be sealed up, and all attempts to break through the Gate would have to fail. All of this has happened. The return of the Jews to Israel and Jerusalem, have fulfilled many more parts to these prophecies. To say such prophecies are vague, only show me how little you know about the Bible, and it's prophecies.
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