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If you are an agnostic than why are you defending the Catholic Church like you are? At any rate, I am done here. Peace.
I would and have defended mormons as well as born agains like yourself......as I said, I don't like bullies. And that is a theme that is very much in keeping with christs message, no?
Most of the outward trappings of spirituality are bizarre when examined by someone who was not raised believing them or who doubts that they have a spiritual origin. If you're not a Mormon but read about the beginnings of Mormonism it seems like a total crock. (an angel named Moroni? Digging up holy tablets? Wha???) But if you traveled from a planet with no religious beliefs whatsoever and landed on earth and were told that many people worshipped a God who came earth as a man, performed miracles, was crucified, died and rose from the dead, it would seem equally ridiculous. Not to mention the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea, etc. etc. You don't have to travel from another planet--many people right here think it's a total crock.
But my point is that the details of other religions can seem foreign and wrong if you're not familiar with them. But for those who are familiar with them and understand their origins they can be very comforting and enriching. Try not to worry about the ones you don't understand. It's not really any of your business and God knows what is in peoples' hearts as they worship Him.
It's not really any of your business and God knows what is in peoples' hearts as they worship Him.
You are right. It really isn't any of my business and I, too, agree that it is what is in people's hearts as they worship him. However, I happen to know a little bit about Biblical prophecy and that is what worries me about people who believe in the Catholic Church and their doctrines. But, as you said, it is none of my business.
I do know the difference between catechism and the holy bible. Yes, we were taught catechism. But we also spent two years reading and studying the bible. The old testament and the new. I assure you, I may not be a believer but I do know the differnece. Please don't try to tell me what my experiences were.
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And please tell me just when the catholic church murdered someone for possessing a bible? When and where? Please...do tell.
As I said, my mother has a bible as does my sister as do my inlaws --- hell, there are bibles everywhere! My own dd has her very own bible with which to study when she was in CCD. I have yet to see the papal goon squad kill her or anyone else though.
And seriously, are you quoting a speech from 1503 AD? That is what has you so certain that catholics are evil?! Time moves on baby....time for you to move on with it.
William Tyndale
Following the publication of Tyndale's New Testament, Cardinal Wolsey condemned Tyndale as a heretic and demanded his arrest.
Tyndale went into hiding, possibly for a time in Hamburg, and carried on working. He revised his New Testament and began translating the Old Testament and writing various treatises. In 1530, he wrote The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it was unscriptural and was a plot by Cardinal Wolsey to get Henry entangled in the papal courts. This resulted in the king's wrath being directed at him: he asked the emperor Charles V to have Tyndale apprehended and returned to England.
Eventually, Tyndale was betrayed to the authorities. He was seized in Antwerp in 1535, betrayed by Henry Phillips, and held in the castle of Vilvoorde near Brussels.
He was tried on a charge of heresy in 1536 and condemned to death, despite Thomas Cromwell's intercession on his behalf. Tyndale's body was burned at the stake. The traditional date of commemoration is 6 October, but records of Tyndale's imprisonment suggest the date might have been some weeks earlier.
Yes, do not let the trappings of Rome fool you. If only the pope lived as simply and humbly as Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson and Joel Olsteen.
Unlike you though, I can and will admit that with Pat Robertson (my pagan catholic mother is a huge fan of his and she keeps me updated on what his organization is up to) at least does a lot of good for this world with his charity work. As does the (gasp! horror of horrors!!) the pope.
And the mormons, the jews and the hindus also do good for this world.
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Just a little something for you to think about next time you slur other people ---- and really, would jesus have done that?
That is not what the catholic priests and nuns taught me.
I asked you in the past and I hoped you would have done it and read about the beheading of John the baptist. Apparently he offended someone. You need to start studying the scripture if you want to defend Mormons, Catholics, Hindus, and Jews. This gospel of religious tolerance that you preach is from the "New Age" movement, and it is foreign to the scripture.
Mark 6:17-28 For Herod himself had sent and laid hold of John, and bound him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother Philip's wife; for he had married her. For John had said to Herod, "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife." Therefore Herodias held it against him and wanted to kill him, but she could not; for Herod feared John, knowing that he [was] a just and holy man, and he protected him. And when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly. Then an opportune day came when Herod on his birthday gave a feast for his nobles, the high officers, and the chief [men] of Galilee. And when Herodias' daughter herself came in and danced, and pleased Herod and those who sat with him, the king said to the girl, "Ask me whatever you want, and I will give [it] to you." He also swore to her, "Whatever you ask me, I will give you, up to half of my kingdom." So she went out and said to her mother, "What shall I ask?" And she said, "The head of John the Baptist!" Immediately she came in with haste to the king and asked, saying, "I want you to give me at once the head of John the Baptist on a platter." And the king was exceedingly sorry; [yet,] because of the oaths and because of those who sat with him, he did not want to refuse her. Immediately the king sent an executioner and commanded his head to be brought. And he went and beheaded him in prison, brought his head on a platter, and gave it to the girl; and the girl gave it to her mother.
Matthew 23:17 "Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold?
Matthew 23:29-37 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, "and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.' "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' [guilt.] "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: [some] of them you will kill and crucify, and [some] of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing! "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
Please read all of Matthew 23 and see just how Christ offended people.
We went through this before. Christ offended back then, and he offends today. Many are offended here as we expose the falsity of the Catholic Church, using God's word.
Just to make it clear, this Christian Catholic stepped in at the first onslaught of this thread and tried to clear many questions through referencing previous posts for you to look at before posing any further questions. I have been down this road too many times to start down it again. If you will spend some time looking through the site first and come back with a new question, perhaps someone will step in.
I am even sure that somewhere in my past posts you will find that I clearly explained to another poster that I consider myself to be a Christian who practices her faith in the Catholic Church.
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I am a Christian before I am a Catholic.
<><
What is the difference? Are both from God? Please give me a biblical interpretation of both.
I notice you like to sit in the sacred circle. How is it sacred? Did God make it sacred?
Most of the outward trappings of spirituality are bizarre when examined by someone who was not raised believing them or who doubts that they have a spiritual origin. If you're not a Mormon but read about the beginnings of Mormonism it seems like a total crock. (an angel named Moroni? Digging up holy tablets? Wha???) But if you traveled from a planet with no religious beliefs whatsoever and landed on earth and were told that many people worshipped a God who came earth as a man, performed miracles, was crucified, died and rose from the dead, it would seem equally ridiculous. Not to mention the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea, etc. etc. You don't have to travel from another planet--many people right here think it's a total crock.
But my point is that the details of other religions can seem foreign and wrong if you're not familiar with them. But for those who are familiar with them and understand their origins they can be very comforting and enriching. Try not to worry about the ones you don't understand. It's not really any of your business and God knows what is in peoples' hearts as they worship Him.
Following the publication of Tyndale's New Testament, Cardinal Wolsey condemned Tyndale as a heretic and demanded his arrest.
Tyndale went into hiding, possibly for a time in Hamburg, and carried on working. He revised his New Testament and began translating the Old Testament and writing various treatises. In 1530, he wrote The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it was unscriptural and was a plot by Cardinal Wolsey to get Henry entangled in the papal courts. This resulted in the king's wrath being directed at him: he asked the emperor Charles V to have Tyndale apprehended and returned to England.
Eventually, Tyndale was betrayed to the authorities. He was seized in Antwerp in 1535, betrayed by Henry Phillips, and held in the castle of Vilvoorde near Brussels.
He was tried on a charge of heresy in 1536 and condemned to death, despite Thomas Cromwell's intercession on his behalf. Tyndale's body was burned at the stake. The traditional date of commemoration is 6 October, but records of Tyndale's imprisonment suggest the date might have been some weeks earlier.
I asked you in the past and I hoped you would have done it and read about the beheading of John the baptist. Apparently he offended someone. You need to start studying the scripture if you want to defend Mormons, Catholics, Hindus, and Jews. This gospel of religious tolerance that you preach is from the "New Age" movement, and it is foreign to the scripture.
Mark 6:17-28 For Herod himself had sent and laid hold of John, and bound him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother Philip's wife; for he had married her. For John had said to Herod, "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife." Therefore Herodias held it against him and wanted to kill him, but she could not; for Herod feared John, knowing that he [was] a just and holy man, and he protected him. And when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly. Then an opportune day came when Herod on his birthday gave a feast for his nobles, the high officers, and the chief [men] of Galilee. And when Herodias' daughter herself came in and danced, and pleased Herod and those who sat with him, the king said to the girl, "Ask me whatever you want, and I will give [it] to you." He also swore to her, "Whatever you ask me, I will give you, up to half of my kingdom." So she went out and said to her mother, "What shall I ask?" And she said, "The head of John the Baptist!" Immediately she came in with haste to the king and asked, saying, "I want you to give me at once the head of John the Baptist on a platter." And the king was exceedingly sorry; [yet,] because of the oaths and because of those who sat with him, he did not want to refuse her. Immediately the king sent an executioner and commanded his head to be brought. And he went and beheaded him in prison, brought his head on a platter, and gave it to the girl; and the girl gave it to her mother.
Matthew 23:17 "Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold?
Matthew 23:29-37 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, "and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.' "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' [guilt.] "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: [some] of them you will kill and crucify, and [some] of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing! "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
Please read all of Matthew 23 and see just how Christ offended people.
We went through this before. Christ offended back then, and he offends today. Many are offended here as we expose the falsity of the Catholic Church, using God's word.
1530?! You are seriously going to pull out what happened in 1530?!
That would be like me saying "Ooooh, those protestants...they KILL catholics! During the protestant reformation, anyways...but still!" Not exactly pertinant, is it? And since you brought up England....Oliver Cromwell was a nice catholic hating protestant..but his reign of terror was not exactly sanctioned by god now was it?
I have no idea what I am suppossed to get from John the Baptist. Don't give pretty girls leeway? Incest will bite you on the rear sooner or later? As for the other quotes...well a lot can be read into them. After all, when Mark talks of ostentation (sp?) could he be talking of Oral Roberts? I think that is as likely as the pope. As far as Matthew...jesus was a pot stirrer. And for good reason. Personally I believe if he ever came back a lot of religious leaders from all denomations will have a lot of answering to do. And calling themselves 'christian' isn't going to get them a pass on behaviour.
I did not intend to mislead you to think that "great hordes of Catholics" reported those things to me. Just like I said I have had Catholics tell me that they are only recently being encouraged to read the Bible and that it is a great mystery that can only be understood after we pass on. That is what I have been told by Catholics.
Often (and I'm not saying necessarily in Bee's case because I don't know who his/her Catholic friends are) when "I know Catholics" is invoked, it's either people who came of age without much of an education in their own faith or people who have left the church for one reason or another. I would submit that neither are particularly good sources for "Why Do Catholics believe-- ?" inquiries, and people whose interest lies beyond justifying their own accusations might do well to check the Catechism for themselves. There's one available online.
The Catholics believe if you pray to Mary she cannot turn Jesus away. Catholics seem to believe they are superior in religious beliefs and when you ask a catholi about their beliefs they will not say they are a Christian, they will say I'm a catholic. Like that means something. Look at what Denise Richards did on Larry King. It was atrocious. Talking about faith and living her lifestyle and then saying "I'm a catholic", that is the reason catholics look so bad. If they would practice the Christian faith the way devout Christians do they wouldn't look like such hypocrites. Saying I'm a catholic means absolutely nothing unless actions show you are sincere and I think a lot of people just don't see it.
I would expect the average member of the RCC says "I'm Catholic" because they wish to be more specific than simply "Christian", which includes everyone from High Church Episcopalian to snake handling, tongue-speaking folk falling in the aisles.
As for the highlighted bit...I think the appropriate phrase here is "res ipse loquitur".
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William Tyndale
