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Nate...What difference would it make to you if I were gay?
Well, unless you are gay, then I do not see how you know that "gays" think exactly like straight people, except they are attracted to the same sex. I don't know how you can claim to know that gays are attracted the same sex in the same way that straights are attracted to the opposite sex. You can claim that is the case; I really don't think you know that.
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If that is the case, then I must conclude that both the apostle Paul and your bible are intolerant and bigoted. Of course I do not believe the bible is the word of any god. You say that god condemns and judges homosexuals, but not human beings...That is the first time I have ever heard anybody class gays as less than human, but perhaps that is not what you meant to say.
I assumed that would be your response. Just know that what the Bible claims about homosexuality is not a problem in my worldview. It is only a problem in your worldview. Just as "Christians" who say homosexuality is not a sin have to do so at the expense of the authority and normativity of the Bible as the Word of God, so you too reject the authority of the Bible. Obviously, if you do not believe the Bible, you are not going to accept that unrepentant homosexuals will be judged for their sin just like every other sinner. Also, I would hope you would know that I am not giving homosexuals a status less than human beings. That is ridiculous that you would suggest that. It should have said just like "any other human being."
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You are entitled to what ever you think about anything, but when you try to convince gays that they are going to end up in hell that is just wrong in my opinion. What possible difference could it make to you what gays do as long as no one is harmed...This I do not understand.
So my views are fine as long as they are privatized, right? Why isn't it wrong for you to try to convince me that it is wrong to tell homosexuals that their lifestyle is sinful? I am not playing word games. I am serious.
For you to tell me that you do not "understand" why I am concerned as to what gays are doing with their lifestyle simply shows me that you do not understand Christianity in the least. I am the one who is intolerant and judgmental, but you are not able to step outside of your own world and see why, from my point of view, I would be concerned about homosexuals. You are reading my statements the lenses of your own presuppositions about right and wrong, good and bad. When you do that, you are simply interpreting what I say according to your own view. How can you even interact with my views as long as you are lost in your own little world? I am not trying to be smart or rude, but I honestly understand why you think I am intolerant. I understand why you think what I am saying is ridiculous. I understand why you do not think homosexuality is wrong, etc., etc. In order for me to do that, I have to some degree step outside my own worldview and look at things from another perspective. I do not see you even trying to do that, and your statement that you do not "understand" shows that you seemingly know very little about true Christianity. You might have your preconceptions, but I don't think they are very accurate.
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I believe gays, real gays and not bisexuals have no choice and cannot wish or force themselves to be different.. A very good friend of mine was a gay man. He hid the fact for years, and struggled and tried to live the straight life with no success at all. In other words he did not want to be gay. He was a totally unhappy mess until the day he finally admitted it to himself. After that he lived a well adjusted and happy life...As I say he and I were the best of friends and shared a lot....He was not the only gay friend I have had in my life. I say had because sadly he died of aids in 1996. He was a wonderful person and I and many others miss him
Your first statement tells me exactly why you will not allow my examples of people who struggled with homosexuality and then later changed to be adequate or sufficient examples. You automatically assume that if a person has "changed," then they cannot have been gay. I would like some proof of that assumption.
I would not begin to suggest that homosexuals are not real people with real struggles who really live life and die. I would never suggest that homosexuality is the chief sin or something that cannot be forgiven. Homosexuals are just like straight people, except that they have different struggles in their lives. If someone objects to that statement, then they are the ones classifying homosexuals from other human beings, not me. Straight and gay are both human, and both live with different areas of weakness. Both need to trust Christ and turn from their lives of sin and turn to Christ's provision for their forgiveness. Obviously, you do not believe that. If I think that Jesus Christ is the only hope for anyone, then why would I not tell them that? It is unloving not to warn sinners of coming judgment. You only interpret my words according to your standard of loving, so you have no idea as to what I am talking about...
Being gay is not a mistake of nature or God, quite the contrary. There is room in the world for all, especially those that are different and challenge our ability to love and treat others with respect, dignity and compassion. Most that worry about gays have issues they may be dealing with themselves. I think many blur the lines of sexuality and as a result find difficulty in accepting some of their feelings or even understanding them. When you can walk on water then we can talk about what God wants and believes, until then it is yet another opinion with a 50/50 chance of being wrong, or at least not right. There are many paths to God and no one can tell another theirs is wrong, to say so is simply arrogance. I suspect that is not a trait useful for spirituality. What you see as right for yourself is just that, right for you. It may not be right for others as we all have our own lessons to learn. Perhaps the time spent in judgements, accusations, and hate would best be applied towards, love, compassion, and understanding.... Which approach sounds more "Christian" to you? or Muslim, or Jewish, or Jain. No religion is with out their ignorance or lack of understanding.
Move towards understanding, knowledge and self actualization.
Regardless of whether being gay is a choice or not, being gay and having sex with other consenting members of the same sex is(in this government at least) a civil liberty.
The question you have to ask yourself is how do you react when you confront a person thats obviously gay? Thats the real question. Do you automatically condemn that person? do you feel uncomfortable around that person? do you automatically hate that person because he or she is gay? do you laugh at the person behind their backs? It like condemning or hating a person because he or she is black which is something a person has no control over.
Its also interestring because people like to "cherry pick" things out of the bible for their personal belief system or agenda. The Ku Klux Klan has done this for example. Here are some verse in the bible.
DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her
I'm certain you don't agree with these teachings from the Bible about sex. And you shouldn't. The list goes on: The Bible says clearly that sex with a prostitute is acceptable for the husband but not for the wife. Polygamy (more than one wife) is acceptable, as is a king's having many concubines. (Solomon, the wisest king of all, had 1,000 concubines.) Slavery and sex with slaves, marriage of girls aged 11-13, and treatment of women as property are all accepted practices in the Scriptures. On the other hand, there are strict prohibitions against interracial marriage, birth control, discussing or even naming a sexual organ, and seeing one's parents nude. While people have ignored these things in scripture, they have cherry picked homosexuality.
"He said there is a love that is so hideous and destructive
We must drive it from Earth to save all our children".
He must know it well, in the night, it's the Hell that he speaks of
It keeps him awake, keeps him awake..
Its also interestring because people like to "cherry pick" things out of the bible for their personal belief system or agenda. The Ku Klux Klan has done this for example. Here are some verse in the bible.
DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her
I'm certain you don't agree with these teachings from the Bible about sex. And you shouldn't. The list goes on: The Bible says clearly that sex with a prostitute is acceptable for the husband but not for the wife. Polygamy (more than one wife) is acceptable, as is a king's having many concubines. (Solomon, the wisest king of all, had 1,000 concubines.) Slavery and sex with slaves, marriage of girls aged 11-13, and treatment of women as property are all accepted practices in the Scriptures. On the other hand, there are strict prohibitions against interracial marriage, birth control, discussing or even naming a sexual organ, and seeing one's parents nude. While people have ignored these things in scripture, they have cherry picked homosexuality.
Just because something is OK in today's society by MTV's standards doesn't make it right with God. The the ceremonial Jewish law no longer applies, the moral law still applies today, especially when its re-affirmed in the New Testement (adultery, divorce, homosexuality).
Being gay is not a mistake of nature or God, quite the contrary. There is room in the world for all, especially those that are different and challenge our ability to love and treat others with respect, dignity and compassion. Most that worry about gays have issues they may be dealing with themselves. I think many blur the lines of sexuality and as a result find difficulty in accepting some of their feelings or even understanding them. When you can walk on water then we can talk about what God wants and believes, until then it is yet another opinion with a 50/50 chance of being wrong, or at least not right. There are many paths to God and no one can tell another theirs is wrong, to say so is simply arrogance. I suspect that is not a trait useful for spirituality. What you see as right for yourself is just that, right for you. It may not be right for others as we all have our own lessons to learn. Perhaps the time spent in judgements, accusations, and hate would best be applied towards, love, compassion, and understanding.... Which approach sounds more "Christian" to you? or Muslim, or Jewish, or Jain. No religion is with out their ignorance or lack of understanding.
Move towards understanding, knowledge and self actualization.
Just because something is OK in today's society by MTV's standards doesn't make it right with God. The the ceremonial Jewish law no longer applies, the moral law still applies today, especially when its re-affirmed in the New Testement (adultery, divorce, homosexuality).
yet adultery and divorce are not looked at in the same light as homosexuality. People divorce and cheat everyday and think nothing about it but when it comes to homosexuality, "you're going to hell". Jesus talked more about liars and has said nothing about what is suppose to be THE GREAT SIN OF HOMOSEXUALITY.
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