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Old 06-28-2008, 07:50 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,188,818 times
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Originally Posted by elwill
Quote:
is it logic that jesus advised you to love who trying kill you and your family and your people ?
Only if you want to stop the hate. So if you want to stop the hate it can only be logical to love your enemy.

Unlike many others I do not believe that hate is the opposite of love.
I believe that the opposite of love is being complete indifferent (not feeling any emotion and / or not feeling any connection with another living being).
What Jesus actually is saying is that you can only conquer hate with love and that answering hate with hate will only result in an endless vicious circle of suffering.
This is why I always try talking before I'm forced to punch someone's lights out. Although I am not a pacifist, I will always try non-violent resistance 1st.
I mean I find it a waste of my time to persuade a serial killer who is hell-bent on killing me to not attack me.
Luckily most armies usually do not consist out of serial killers, but out of soldiers and / or mercenaries and, unlike serial predators, you can reason with them.
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:59 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,216 posts, read 2,258,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Only if you want to stop the hate. So if you want to stop the hate it can only be logical to love your enemy.
i agree with you , but for more accurate statement , you can say : if you wnat to stop the hate it can only be logical to be tolerante with your enemy


Quote:
What Jesus actually is saying is that you can only conquer hate with love and that answering hate with hate will only result in an endless vicious circle of suffering.
perfect explaination , that's what i understand also from this verse
the enemy here refer to personal enemy , personal emotions toward some person not invadors or killers

God gave glad tiding for muslims with these behaviours
]134 - Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men; for God loves those who do good

with another verses , God said to mahammed (pbuh) and muslims

126 - And if ye do catch them out, catch them out no worse than they catch you put: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient.

127 - And do thou be patient, for thy patience is but from God; nor grieve over them: and distress not thyself because of their plots

Quote:
This is why I always try talking before I'm forced to punch someone's lights out. Although I am not a pacifist, I will always try non-violent resistance 1st.
I mean I find it a waste of my time to persuade a serial killer who is hell-bent on killing me to not attack me.
Luckily most armies usually do not consist out of serial killers, but out of soldiers and / or mercenaries and, unlike serial predators, you can reason with them.
i agree with you
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:38 PM
 
22 posts, read 29,269 times
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In response to your original question, there is a verse in Acts 4:12 written by Luke, the author of the gospel of Luke, that says:

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

To put the verse in context, if you read the previous two verses, 10 and 11:

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. "

So the name that verse 12 mentions definitely refers to Jesus Christ. Therefore the verse seems clear that without Jesus Christ, there is no way to be saved from the consequences of sin.


The bible clearly teaches that all mankind have committed sin against God, the following are a few examples of verses that teach this:

Psalm 14:3, Psalm 130:3, Proverbs 20:9, Isaiah 53:6, Isaiah 64:6, Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:8
The easiest to read without alternative meaning is Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
The bible also teaches that God hates sin:
Psalm 5:4-5 says “For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.


(Also see Deuteronomy 25:16, Psalm 7:11, Romans 1:18)


Therefore as we stand before God who is just and righteous, we are all sinners, and God must punish sin.
Romans 6:23 teaches that “the wages of sin is death

When each of us deserved only death at the hands of a justifiably angry God, instead of showing wrath, God shows his love and mercy.


Romans 5:8 says “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(Also see Micah 7:18, 2 Corinthians 8:9, Ephesians 2:4-5, 1 John:9-10)


In prophesy of the great work of Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God, on the cross, read Isaiah 53. In verses 3-5 we can read about his affliction it says in verse 5:
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
And verse 10 tells us that “it pleased the LORD (Jehovah) to bruise him” it says that the LORD “shalt make his soul an offering for sin


In the old testament of the bible, atonement for sins was made through the shedding of animal blood. Hebrews 9:22 says “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


The shedding of Christ’s royal blood on the cross was the fulfilment of the sacrificial laws in the old testament. He was the ultimate sacrifice.
Hebrews 13:12 says “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”


Therefore if Christ has done this for us, and having been resurrected from the dead, is going to judge us when we die ( in John 5:22, Jesus says of his father “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:” the Son being Jesus Christ himself), how can any who have not accepted Jesus Christ as saviour and lord be forgiven. How can there be any other way if a man has rejected the great atoning work of the Lord Jesus Christ.


Hebrews 2:3 "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;"


According to the Bible, as a Christ rejecter, (for your faith does not acknowledge Jesus Christ as God and saviour), you will deservedly end up in hell. As a born again Christian, who acknowledges that Jesus Christ is both God and saviour, I will undeservedly end up with everlasting life with the Lord. I deserve hell the same as you, but the Lord has saved me. I prey that he will save you also.


Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 4,336,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
forgive them God, because they don't know what they are doing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
Travelling fella , this statement , shocked me
it's the same prayer which mohammed (pbuh) prayed with after his battle in Uhud in The Most Awkward Hour in the Messenger’s Life

"O Allâh, forgive my people for they have no knowledge."
Don't be shocked, elwill. Travelling fella got that from Jesus, as He was being crucified.

Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
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Old 10-17-2014, 09:33 AM
 
1 posts, read 501 times
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Salam


I don't mean to judge or insult anyone but I would just like to make a few statements based on my opinion and that based on fact

There are those of you who claim Allah is a false god and that He is a moon god or some pagan arab god because he was worshipped among the pagan arabs along side other deities.

So here is my refutation to these claims with all due respect to those who have tried to prove God wrong: You want to claim Allah is a false god because there are pagan idols of Him, there are mystical legends of Him among arabic legend but there are congruent or similar claims about YHWH(the God of Israel) such as He is also represented by the moon He is also often represented in ancient Hebrew pantheism by a snake and is affiliated with water, many statues and idols were made of Him and He was worshipped as a chief deity among some tribes of Israel among other deities even though they ascribed these claims and partners to they still admitted to Him being the one true All-Mighty God they still made these claims about Him the same with the pagan arabs they said that Allah has three daughters and that He is represented by the moon and when asked about this they said "we know He is Allah the one true creator" but they preferred ascribing partners to Him and these claims to Him because it suited their agendas the same thing with the ancient Hebrews they said the same they just preferred their agendas.

And if you want to make more claims about the usage of the crescent moon in Islam or by muslims it is because in the semetic parts of the world (arabic,hebrew,aramaic) the lunar calendar is used and this is why muslims use this symbol(for time )

The reason why this symbol is used to represent Islam ex. Its usage on flags Islamic organisations and Islam itself is because the ancient byzantines used the crescent and the star to represent themselves and when they conquered muslim countries muslims became so accustomed to this that they used it to represent themselves and this is also the reason why no muslim countries or no muslim in general in the past used it to represent Islam and muslims it was just a way of identifying them so this is the only reason may Allah bless you all because you are His creation and He loves you

God bless and may He make you all prosper
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:21 AM
 
Location: US Wilderness
1,233 posts, read 1,118,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

many times the christians here arise this verse as a proof from bible that the only truth and the only way to enter the paradise is to worship jesus

my question is
is this the only verse in all the Gospeles which condemn whom not worshipp jesus as a God ?
It is obvious that Jesus means that he is showing the true way to life. The question is: What is that way? Keep reading in John 14 and you find that out.

14:15 If you love me, keep my commands
14:21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me.
14:23 Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching.

What commands did Jesus give? What teaching did he give that shows the way to life?

Quote:
Matthew 19
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Mark 10
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’”

Luke 18
18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’”
In saying how to obtain eternal life, Jesus downplays his own role and specifies the action Commandments. He leaves out the ‘worship’ ones and the ‘covet’ ones. And if you want to know what Matthew means by ‘love your neighbor’, see the story of the sheep and the goats.

Quote:
Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
The sheep (the righteous) are rewarded for their charitable actions even though they were not consciously aware of religious motives. The goats (the unrighteous) are punished for failing to perform charitable actions. No mention of worshipping Jesus. The Son of Man is the judge and what you will be judged on is what you do or not do in accordance with the action commandments.

Last edited by Alt Thinker; 10-17-2014 at 10:28 AM.. Reason: Improve formatting of quotes
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:22 AM
 
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No...but it is Jesus stating specifically in a very clear, easy to understand way. Why do we need another verse?
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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The first answer remains the best, imo:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
in my humble opinion elwill, this verse doesn't condemn people who do not worship jesus as a God, but unfortunately it has been misunderstood (sometimes on purpose to manipulate people into belief)

What Jesus really meant for those who believe in the trinity, is that Christ is the way to the father, but who or what is Christ? most people equate Christ to Jesus, but Christ is everything! Christ is the intelligence of God who guides creation, it is called the son of God because for believers in the trinity it is the projection of God's consciousness into creation.

I know muslims don't believe in trinity, but I believe this is because of misconceptions on what the trinity really is, actually God is a single entity, but we all know that God is also the life behind our lifes, the thoughts behind our thoughts, etc, and yet God remains as a single entity, this is the same that happens in the trinity, we have God the father, who is beyond the reach of anything in another dimension, then we have his creation, where the intelligence of God (Christ) guides the spirit (OM, Aum, Amen, Word of God, etc) who is responsible for creation.

So what Jesus really meant, is that we should seek unity with this universal intelligence in order to discover what is the true reality and earn our inmortality back, prophets (pbut) were able to attain this unity and thus can show the way to others, so any true prophet is a Christ or to state it more properly one with Christ and a way to truth and eternal life. That's why they founded religious paths for us to follow and awake the Christ inside us!! this is the true second coming of Christ, when he is born in the hearts of all men we'll reach the second coming.

I hope someday all men realize that we are all seeking the same thing, and that we are all one single being, dreaming we are many instead of arguing who's right and wrong on their beliefs.

Peace to you, peace to all being of this world and beyond
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