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"For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature."
"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient."
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, mailiciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers."
"Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents."
"Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful."
"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Not sure why you quoted me. Let me clarify my opinion, if hat was the issue. I've heard many people say that they're a "catholic" for example, yet they're pro abortion and pro gay marriage, something the catholic church is explicitly against and that stance is part of their formal doctrine. My argument is that you can't be something if you don't agree with it. It's not a spiritual buffet; pick and choose what you believe and don't accept the other. That would be like me calling myself a vegetarian but eating meat. I like vegetables and agree with their benefits but don't agree with the vegetarian stance on anti meat. You either are or you aren't.
I would say you are exactly right in that respect. Only reason I quoted you was because I was attempting (more of a guess really) to reason as to why someone who has conflicting beliefs might agree with what I said regardless of their beliefs.
I was just pointing out as you even clarified that supporting this new development regardless of the position a person may hold is hypocritical.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise
BK,
you confuse me; you're conservative on homosexuality and far left liberal on illegal immigration. Where do you stand on abortion?
Kev,
I shouldn't have called you unintelligent. I apologize and ask for your forgiveness.
That is OK. I have been called worse on here- and elsewhere. I am neither popular with the liberals of the conservatives. You should see the nasty stuff I get when I advocate gun rights! It doesn't bother me.
I would say you are exactly right in that respect. Only reason I quoted you was because I was attempting (more of a guess really) to reason as to why someone who has conflicting beliefs might agree with what I said regardless of their beliefs.
I was just pointing out as you even clarified that supporting this new development regardless of the position a person may hold is hypocritical.
God says turn from sin, do not accept it or tolerate it. Man tells God he is wrong, and not only tolerates it, but accepts it and revels in it. Man is no longer serving God's will, but serving man's desire.
I disagree. Only the OLD testaments condem homosexuality. The Old Testament is LAW and we do not live under LAW anymore. We now live under GRACE as given to us by the New Testaments of the Lord Jesus Christ. And Jesus himself never condemed homosexuals. While I agree that homosexuality IS a SIN, many things are a sin and we do not hold those sins up to the same judgement as we do the sin of homosexuality. These include divorce, adultrey, drunkeness, smoking, cussing (especially the GD word), eating pork and many other things that we as humans, falling short of the perfect glory of the Lord, engage in. And this includes pastors- some of whom are divorced. If we all had to live under the laws of the Old Testament, we would most certainly all be condemed to eternal Hell for the way we live.
My main problem with Christianity as practiced is that it picks out a few sins to be really "bad sins" and choose to ignore more widely practiced sins when the Lord himself made it clear that ALL sin is sin and that one sin is no worse than another sin. So when churches start bashing the divorcees, the adulterers, the smokers and the pork eaters along with the homosexuals, I might be more inclined to hear it. But even then, as the Bible says, don't judge lest you be judged. Because when the day comes, you and me will be standing there in front of the great Judge, the All Mighty God right along with the gays waiting to hear our eternal fate.
That is incorrect as a previous poster showed you. It exists in all areas of the Bible and to be honest, is one of the clearer aspects of its teachings.
The problem with people who tolerate sin and excuse it is that they take God's word and pick and choose that which fits them. Their mind is clouded, they seek a self serving conclusion ignoring all that does not support their position and putting up that which is out of context to claim that it does. Serving man, not God.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK
Churches have always been among the worst of the gay bashers. They have shamefully advocated no human or civil rights for gays and often said that all gays will burn on hell. But it now appears that the church is coming out of the dark ages. Better late than never!
Presbyterian assembly votes to drop gay clergy ban - Yahoo! News (broken link)
Off topic, we are not here to discuss the validity of the religion itself, as in "Does God exist", "Is the Bible real or man made", or other claims. To do so would be to evade the topic of the issue.
I disagree. Only the OLD testaments condem homosexuality. The Old Testament is LAW and we do not live under LAW anymore. We now live under GRACE as given to us by the New Testaments of the Lord Jesus Christ. And Jesus himself never condemed homosexuals. While I agree that homosexuality IS a SIN, many things are a sin and we do not hold those sins up to the same judgement as we do the sin of homosexuality. These include divorce, adultrey, drunkeness, smoking, cussing (especially the GD word), eating pork and many other things that we as humans, falling short of the perfect glory of the Lord, engage in. And this includes pastors- some of whom are divorced. If we all had to live under the laws of the Old Testament, we would most certainly all be condemed to eternal Hell for the way we live.
My main problem with Christianity as practiced is that it picks out a few sins to be really "bad sins" and choose to ignore more widely practiced sins when the Lord himself made it clear that ALL sin is sin and that one sin is no worse than another sin. So when churches start bashing the divorcees, the adulterers, the smokers and the pork eaters along with the homosexuals, I might be more inclined to hear it. But even then, as the Bible says, don't judge lest you be judged. Because when the day comes, you and me will be standing there in front of the great Judge, the All Mighty God right along with the gays waiting to hear our eternal fate.
New Testament:
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
I agree with you that homosexuality is a sin like the others that you listed but that doesn't mean to ignore it either. Sin is sin. we are commanded to love the sinner but hate the sin. That includes our own sin as well.
My intention was not to directly look at this from one sides disagreement. The fact is, everyone should be looking at this decision in poor light.
From a Christians perspective, this is a pure violation of the teachings to which a Church prescribes and should be viewed as nothing more than an acceptance of sin to serve man over God.
Then do not eat shellfish any longer, and work to have it banned. You are serving your taste buds, not God. It's time to repent. Go picket outside Red Lobster.
Quote:
From a non-Christian or non-religious view, this should be seen also as a contradiction to themselves as it shows that this institution who proclaims God's truth doesn't accept it or put any faith into it.
God's "truth" is unknowable and indistinct. That's why there are so many denominations of Christianity.
My non-Christian perspective does not seek to cast aspersions on progress made. Unlike you, I am not quick to call organizations hypocritical or contradicting because they allow for more inclusiveness. You're being judgmental and assuming a perception standard for all that adheres to your own, which is completely off. You don't speak for anyone else but yourself.
Quote:
Either way, it is an institution of hypocrisy as they make a mockery of their own belief system by ignoring part of its beliefs to serve its own goals. What value does this institution have if they change what they will when they choose to?
The value of the institution is in recognizing that homosexuality is completely natural, always has been, and that it's time to remove it from its condemned past. Besides, Christians have been "changing what they will when they choose to" since the inception of Christianity. That's why most Christians don't adhere to certain parts of the Bible while focussing on other parts. Some are recognized as archaic and not applicable to current times, so they are written off as some kind of outdated absurdity. Selectively choosing which scriptures to follow is about as hyprocritical as you can get, and ALL Christians fail in this department, no matter how they try and justify it.
Quote:
I honestly would expect those who support homosexuality to be using this as a validation of their position, not embracing the hypocrisy. Its like being opposed to stealing only when it is stealing from yourself. It makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. Christianity is what doesn't make sense.
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