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Old 10-12-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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If one included the Gnostic Gospels into the bible it would create allot of confusion, the NT paints Jesus in a different like than the Gnostic Gospels, it would be interesting however. I do think that the Gospel of Thomas is the oldest of the gospels, it seems very rational that one would record what Jesus said as opposed to his every move.

Montana Guy, there is a very good web site that covers just about all of the beliefs systems: Internet Sacred Text Archive Home
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
A number of people have mentioned bits of information from some of the ancient texts that never made it into the Bible and were apparently edited out. I've read that the Catholic Bible has more books than the Protestant Bible. I just think it would be interesting if someone published everything that was left out of the Bible we're all familiar with along with the Bible we know just to get a larger perspective of all of the historical sources that went into it. I wasn't even aware that some of these books even existed until people had mentioned them on the forum. I also wonder why this editing was necessary in the first place.
Bible means collection of books, and canon means list.
there was no canon/list of "acceptable books" made by the Jews until after Jesus Christ came and rose from the dead, and the rulers in Israel who rejected Him as Messiah made a canon in the first century and excluded 1 Enoch on purpose, because it is about Jesus Christ as the Son of Man in heaven, and God, who was with God and who was to be revealed, and so on, and in whose name the righteous were redeemed.

Enoch was called "scripture" by Jesus Christ, in Matthew Mat 22:29, 30
and Jesus preached about Himself as Enoch revealed Him to be, 'the Son of Man in heaven' [Christ, the Living Spirit], and who was now come as Redeemer. Jesus' womb brothers, Jude and James, also quoted from Enoch, and Jude called Enoch the prophet.

Enoch was called Scripture by Barnabas, one of the 70 disciples, and by many early Church writers and witnesses.
It was only in Rome in the 4th century that Enoch was "banned" and Rome's influence did not extend to the Absynnians, who had Enoch as Scripture from before they became NT believers, when they were practicing Jews, and so they kept it in their "bible" as part of their acceptable "list" of sacred Scripture.

Bible Study: Which Bible? Whose Canon?

The Dead Sea Scrolls include many copies of Enoch, which they studied as Scripture, also.

Revelation ends the books inspiried by God, and Revelation is the "revealing of Jesus Christ", whom Enoch wrote of as "hidden in heaven", who "was to be revealed"; so Enoch is the first "revelation" of the Son of Man in heaven, shown by Enoch to be God, hidden, and Revelation is the last "revelation" of the Son of Man in heaven, shown by John to be God, "revealed".

All books in one's list of sacred Scripture must correlate with the OT and NT and with one another, to be valid. Other than that, there are still good histories, like Josephus. Jasher is also good history, and true history, and correlates with the OT and NT and was also read by the early Church Believers, who quoted from it, like Paul, who was a scribe, and by the author of Hebrews -which may have been Paul. But Stephen did not have Jasher, and Peter seems to not have had it, but Peter did read Jubilees; but Jesus taught Peter that something written in Jubilees, which Peter believed and quoted in Acts [Jubilees does not correlate with the OT and with Jasher] was not true, when he gave him the vision of the unclean animals in the sheet let down from heaven. so the Holy Spirt does let one know what is "truth", when one walks with the LORD. -And song of Solomon is not Scripture truth and should not be in anyone's "sacred list", anyway, as it is just a dirty minded old adulterer writing of his adultery with another woman, when he had so many wives already, against God's command, that he could not "service" -or be serviced by- one a night, in several years, anyway.

Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 10-12-2009 at 10:48 AM..
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post

Enoch was called "scripture" by Jesus Christ, in Matthew Mat 22:29, 30
and Jesus preached about Himself as Enoch revealed Him to be, 'the Son of Man in heaven' [Christ, the Living Spirit], and who was now come as Redeemer. Jesus' womb brothers, Jude and James, also quoted from Enoch, and Jude called Enoch the prophet.

Hmm. I just looked at the link to Matthew 22:29,30. There's nothing in those verses that mentions Enoch. How did you come to that determination?
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Downtown Greensboro, NC
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The two I can think of is the Book of Enoch and the Book of Noah. My guess as to the reason they were excluded was partially due to its references to "visitors" coming from the skies and mating with human women to produce an offspring called the Nephilim. (alien abductions?) This is briefly mentioned in the book of Genesis. The Book of Noah basically says that God created the great flood to rid the world of the Nephilim. Noah was chosen because he "was perfect in his generation" (genetically that is)
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Hmm. I just looked at the link to Matthew 22:29,30. There's nothing in those verses that mentions Enoch. How did you come to that determination?
Jesus said the Sadducees erred because of their "not knowing the Scriptures" which Scriptures taught that the angels in heaven do not marry, and that in the resurrection, we who attain that resurrection unto life will be equal with, like, companions of, the angels in heaven.

Those Scriptures are in 1 Enoch. In 1 Enoch, only, is it taught that the angels in heaven do not marry, were not created to marry; and in the resurrection we who are resurrected unto life will be companions of the angels in heaven, and so, we will be "like them".
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
A number of people have mentioned bits of information from some of the ancient texts that never made it into the Bible and were apparently edited out. I've read that the Catholic Bible has more books than the Protestant Bible. I just think it would be interesting if someone published everything that was left out of the Bible we're all familiar with along with the Bible we know just to get a larger perspective of all of the historical sources that went into it. I wasn't even aware that some of these books even existed until people had mentioned them on the forum. I also wonder why this editing was necessary in the first place.
The Catholic bible does contain more books than the Protestant bible. The Angelic books didn't set well with the Protestant mentallity, so they were eventually omitted.

However, I don't think you can simply go back and add books to the "bible", seeing as there was no bible until the books that are currently in the catholic version were added to the biblical cannon until the council of nicea.

There was no "Bible" before this council made an official one. There were just various testaments, that various sects that called themselves Christians choose to believe or not believe. The gospel of Judas, for instance, shows that Judas only betrayed Jesus, because Christ wanted him to. Changes ideas a bit doesn't it.

Some of the ancient Christian sects believed that sexual encounters were the way to worship Christ. Others believed that you had to crucify yourself to truely follow Christ.

The Romans had a way of organizing religion. Constantine saw that this new "religion" was catching on in his empire. So he "converted" to keep the people in line.

He didn't like the fact that so many people were worshipping in different ways. So as they did with the Greek Gods, and many others, they solidified everything into one, concise, state controlled religion.

And that sir, is the birth of what you could consider as the modern version of Christianity. Before that, there was no one Christian church or belief.
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Old 10-12-2009, 02:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post

There was no "Bible" before this council made an official one. There were just various testaments, that various sects that called themselves Christians choose to believe or not believe. ..
That is not true. Bible means collection of books, and the Jews had "collections of books", as others also did.

2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring [with thee], and the books/biblion, [but] especially the parchments.

"bring the collection, the biblion, esp the parchments"
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
That is not true. Bible means collection of books, and the Jews had "collections of books", as others also did.

2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring [with thee], and the books/biblion, [but] especially the parchments.

"bring the collection, the biblion, esp the parchments"
I know what the word "Bible" means.

However, its meaning in todays English language generally means the holy book that is the "word of God" and the spiritual book that Christians follow as their rule book.

Jews had a book of stories yes, its called the Torah, I'm sure you know that.

Muslims actually follow the Torah as well, and the Qur'an on top of that.

However, there was NO BIBLE until the council of Nicea.

Here is a link so you can educate yourself on the biblical cannon.


Biblical canon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Canon of the Bible

And here is a little about the Nicean council

First Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are the conviently forgotten bits of Christian history. Most Christians would have you believe that God came down from on high, and wrote the bible, or told others to write in, in the specific order it is today, omitting the hundreds of other books that were decided weren't fitting of the bible.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:11 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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Ya know......all sorts of books were left out of the bible, Moby Dick for example, or Bertrand Russells, "Why I am not a Christian", Ya won't find that one squeezed in between Jude and Revelations either.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes View Post
Ya know......all sorts of books were left out of the bible, Moby Dick for example, or Bertrand Russells, "Why I am not a Christian", Ya won't find that one squeezed in between Jude and Revelations either.
It is "Revelation" -The Revelation of Jesus Christ.
"The spirit of prophecy is the Testimony of Jesus Christ". Enoch passes the test, and passed the test and was called "Scripture" and is called Scripture; but because the Christ rejecting Jews made a canon/list of a collection of books, excluding Enoch from the list because of it's testimony of Jesus Christ [though the Essenes never excluded it, and kept it as Scripture and studied it as such], then the backsliden helenized Christians of the 4th century followed the same list of those Christ rejecting Jews of the first century, in their list of books, and so, rejected the Scriptures written by Enoch.
But the Abbysynians did not follow Rome, and the Essenes did not follow the Christ rejecting Jews; -and both groups kept Enoch as Scripture, as Jesus did.
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