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Old 07-19-2008, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,891 posts, read 4,190,495 times
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This is an excerpt from "A course in consciousness" thought it would make an interesting thread. I think it is right on.

Belief, any belief, is based on the sense of insecurity. Only when all belief is given up are you free to know yourself. In self discovery what you find is the Truth - that Truth which is total, self-evident and which needs no outside support or justification. The result is that any belief system, in order to be sustained, requires constant effort at defending it, reinforcing it, and shoring it up. This effort invariably strengthens the sense of separation that the belief system is supposed to dissolve.

"When a person finds that his own efforts are fruitless, then he turns to a power, he creates a power, conceives a power which will give him what he himself cannot get. He creates a concept, worships it, prays to it and begs it to give him what he wants. When even that entity fails to give him what he is seeking, further frustration and misery arise."
In religion, mankind creates its gods in its own images, and each religion then justifies its actions by claiming it speaks for its god. The more vengeful and punitive is the god, the more vengeful and punitive are the people who created it and who believe in it. Furthermore, if we think of God as being separate from us, we will not be able to avoid asking such questions as, "Why did God create suffering?", or, "Why is God doing this to me?" Thus, many adherents to Christianity are described as being God-fearing, not God-loving. Any belief in a separate god induces guilt, expiation of which often takes the form of trying to induce guilt in others. It is no accident that the most peaceful religions are the ones, like Buddhism, that have no concept of god.
Non-dualistically, God is not an entity that is separate from us, that can do something, and to which we might ascribe emotions and intentions. God is not an object or entity at all, let alone one that has emotions or intentions. God does not and cannot "do" anything, because there is nothing but God, so there is nothing separate for God to act on, to feel about, or to think about. Because there is nothing but God, I am God and you are God.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Swamps of Florida
3,412 posts, read 9,198,999 times
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I kind of liked your post, but then i got lost somewhere. If i understand this correctly, what you're trying to say is everyone is God on it's own. Am i correct? If so, i'm 100% agree!
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Old 07-19-2008, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,891 posts, read 4,190,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
I kind of liked your post, but then i got lost somewhere. If i understand this correctly, what you're trying to say is everyone is God on it's own. Am i correct? If so, i'm 100% agree!
Yes, we are all manifestations of this thing we call God.
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,798 posts, read 6,142,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
This is an excerpt from "A course in consciousness" thought it would make an interesting thread. I think it is right on.

Belief, any belief, is based on the sense of insecurity. Only when all belief is given up are you free to know yourself. In self discovery what you find is the Truth - that Truth which is total, self-evident and which needs no outside support or justification. The result is that any belief system, in order to be sustained, requires constant effort at defending it, reinforcing it, and shoring it up. This effort invariably strengthens the sense of separation that the belief system is supposed to dissolve.

"When a person finds that his own efforts are fruitless, then he turns to a power, he creates a power, conceives a power which will give him what he himself cannot get. He creates a concept, worships it, prays to it and begs it to give him what he wants. When even that entity fails to give him what he is seeking, further frustration and misery arise."
In religion, mankind creates its gods in its own images, and each religion then justifies its actions by claiming it speaks for its god. The more vengeful and punitive is the god, the more vengeful and punitive are the people who created it and who believe in it. Furthermore, if we think of God as being separate from us, we will not be able to avoid asking such questions as, "Why did God create suffering?", or, "Why is God doing this to me?" Thus, many adherents to Christianity are described as being God-fearing, not God-loving. Any belief in a separate god induces guilt, expiation of which often takes the form of trying to induce guilt in others. It is no accident that the most peaceful religions are the ones, like Buddhism, that have no concept of god.
Non-dualistically, God is not an entity that is separate from us, that can do something, and to which we might ascribe emotions and intentions. God is not an object or entity at all, let alone one that has emotions or intentions. God does not and cannot "do" anything, because there is nothing but God, so there is nothing separate for God to act on, to feel about, or to think about. Because there is nothing but God, I am God and you are God.

Yes I absolutely agree.

A "belief" seperates us or boxes us into a set of rules.
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:42 PM
 
947 posts, read 2,833,675 times
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Never thought of belief in that way before. I love the sentence "Only when all belief is given up are you free to know yourself. In self discovery what you find is the Truth - that Truth which is total, self-evident and which needs no outside support or justification"
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Old 07-19-2008, 07:40 PM
 
70 posts, read 213,189 times
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I agree with this idea, but it is certainly something I struggle with. I'm sort of amazed on this forum, from what little I have been on it, where people pass off their beliefs/opinions as facts.

On a similar note, I think I can't help as a human being to have certain beliefs on God - even if the belief is that God is the absence of beliefs. On the flipside of that, sometimes I feel my beliefs are not firm enough. I do believe that we are all connected extensions of each other, and that God is within all of us - but sometimes I don't feel I really KNOW that, when maybe I should believe it more.
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9 posts, read 18,713 times
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That paragraph sounds like something out of the matrix movie.

I don't fully understand what it's saying... that what Christians know as God is actually themselves and others?

I'm thinking belief is a choice, we choose to believe what makes sense to us, or in the case of God and the supernatural what we are comfortable with believing to control difficult emotions.

If Christians think of God as a supernatural entity that exists on another plane of existence to our own, and that there are Angels - humanoid creatures with bird wings - then I think that's exactly what they believe, literally, not that he/she is just their unconscious manifestation of the good and bad that exists is humans and the random nature of chance.

We can never fully let go of believe, I believe that I exists, I believe that gravity is holding me down on Earth etc. how can you let go of those beliefs to free your mind? I can see how you could be open to new concepts, but not that you can let go of belief all together.

If you were to let go of belief all together you would completely lose touch with reality and never be capable of rational thought again, because you have abandoned everything that makes you who you are and capable of choice... I'm pretty sure that's called psychosis?

Last edited by mango9; 07-19-2008 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,252,948 times
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It actually makes entirely perfect sense. That's why Muslims can't tell you what it means to be a Muslim and Christians can't tell you what it means to be Christian and so on and so forth - in terms of what you can and can't do. The notion of any God within a religion often seems to be quite bare on the surface. Just a deity. However, what I find interesting is that people tend to insert their own prejudices, their own loves, their own hates, likes, dislikes, moral subservience or ignorance and they apply it to what their God thinks they should do. In essence, they create their own God based on what they are themselves.

That is why I find the idea of a God who condemns people to hell to be such a despicable and distasteful thought. To me, it seems that the people who worship this sort of thing make no qualms about condemning other people to hell. Ever noticed that? Those who really love the fire and brimstone God are often the pushiest to tell you how quickly you're going to go to hell. In essence, their God becomes a projection of themselves. The same may go for someone who believes in a loving, caring, peaceful God - chances are they are typically loving, caring, and peaceful. What seems to be lost, however, is trying to keep in touch with religious dichotomy and what your actual projections are.

I think that some people really have a hard time coping with the God of their dichotomy and the God of their personality yet those whose dichotomies and personalities line up are often those who we might call "fundamentalist" in belief. No one wants to think that slavery is immoral but a hundred and fifty years ago, people used those same projections and dichotomies to allow themselves to own slaves. To them, there was nothing wrong with it and they found their way to excuse this behavior in their dichotomies.

What seems to be interesting in all of this, and perhaps an exercise in psychology, is why certain people feel a personal attachment to vindictive and horrible dichotomies and others do not.

To take Christians for example - there are many on this forum who do not hesitate to tell you how quickly you will rot in hell. But looking further at their posts you also realize that many of them are quite vindictive in nature themselves and very condemnatory. It's as if they've aligned their belief to coincide with their personality.

I thought this was an excellent post!
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9 posts, read 18,713 times
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So is it speaking purely in the context of God and people's belief in the idea of God?

Quote:
Belief, any belief, is based on the sense of insecurity.
This sentence doesn't make sense to me.

I believe that gravity is holding me down on this Earth because that's was reasonable evidence suggests, not because I would otherwise be scared if I didn't know. If science comes out tomorrow and says it is actually magnetic forces holding me down on Earth and not gravity I would say "wow, who saw that one coming" but accept it, because I trust that the collective opinion of the scientific community is credible enough to make reasonably accurate discoveries.

In the context of God, saying that the belief in God is based on a sense of insecurity makes sense. People believe in supernatural religion in spite of reasonable evidence to help them cope with difficult emotions. When their relative is killed in a random falling coconut accident and they can't deal with the fact that it was just bad, bad luck they can tell them self "it was just their time and God wanted them". This gives the random act of chance of a falling killer coconut the sense of fairness, that it is part of a plan made by this awesome God that loves them all, and their now dead relative has gone somewhere wonderful. That way, they can cope with the fact that they will not see this person again in this life, but they will in the next according to their belief in God, so they feel ok.

Had they not had this belief in God, these emotions would be a lot harder to deal with so they "just have faith" in the idea that there is a God and afterlife. You could call that the insecurity, in which case that sentence makes sense. But as a general rule I don't think it does.

Saying "any belief is based on a sense of insecurity" is a belief it's self, so is that statement also based on a sense of insecurity?

In the context of God I understand it, but as a sweeping statement it's not rational.


Last edited by mango9; 07-19-2008 at 11:31 PM..
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,252,948 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mango9 View Post
So is it speaking purely in the context of God and people's belief in the idea of God?



This sentence doesn't make sense to me.

I believe that gravity is holding me down on this Earth because that's was reasonable evidence suggests, not because I would otherwise be scared if I didn't know. If science comes out tomorrow and says it is actually magnetic forces holding me down on Earth and not gravity I would say "wow, who saw that one coming" but accept it, because I trust that the collective opinion of the scientific community is credible enough to make reasonably accurate discoveries.

In the context of God, saying that the belief in God is based on a sense of insecurity makes sense. Because people believe in God to help them cope with difficult emotions. When their relative is killed in a random falling coconut accident and they can't deal with the fact that it was just bad, bad luck they can tell them self "it was just their time and God wanted them". This gives the random act of chance of a falling killer coconut the sense of fairness, that it is part of a plan made by this awesome God that loves them all, and their now dead relative has gone somewhere wonderful. That way, they can cope with the fact that they will not see this person again in this life, but they will in the next according to their belief in God, so they feel ok.

Had they not had this belief in God, these emotions would be a lot harder to deal with so they "just have faith" in the idea that there is a God. You could call that the insecurity, in which case that sentence makes sense. But as a general rule I don't think it does.

Saying "any belief is based on a sense of insecurity" is a belief it's self, so is that statement also based on a sense of insecurity?

In the context of God I understand it, but as a sweeping statement it's not rational.
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But, I think you're missing the crux of the point. Everyone thinks that their relative died and went to heaven. I can never recall anyone talk about a dead relative and saying "He's in hell now". But you always hear "He's in heaven now."

What's even funnier is that if my Atheist self dropped dead tomorrow there might be people who showed up to my funeral saying "Well, he's in heaven now." Or "He's in a better place."

Why don't people wonder if their relatives are in heaven? Do people actually think that perhaps they might not get to rejoice with their loved ones because they're in hell? Nobody does. Everyone thinks that their loved one is in heaven. Amazing isn't it?
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