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Old 07-21-2008, 04:28 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 8,534,309 times
Reputation: 3779

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I haven't read all the posts, but I want to defend my brethren in that we do not 'hate' homosexuals. The choice of how they act upon their feelings are what we object to, just as we do to any other acts that are contrary to God's will. I, personally, have at least one dear friend who is a lesbian. I do not know her private behavior, any more than I know that of most of the other people that I know and love. She is not a member of our church, but if she chose to be, she would be welcome. What she does in private is between her and God, as long as it is not bringing reproach upon the church. She doesn't go around announcing her life's choices, any more than those who may be involved in any other activity that is contrary to God's will does. It is the pride that homosexuals exhibit that is bringing so much attention towards them.
If a member of our congregation left his/her spouse, and took up with another person's spouse, they would be just as condemned as the person practicing any other form of immorality. We did not make the rules as to what is immoral, God did.
We do have divorced and remarried members. God will judge them, we don't.

My husband and I were divorced from our first spouses before we met, and before we became Christians. We both had a scriptural reason to get divorced. If we hadn't had such a reason, I don't know how we would have handled our marriage. I suppose we would have trusted God to judge us fairly.
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Netherlands
249 posts, read 531,639 times
Reputation: 72
Default Good Ideas & Dear Dr. Laura

Quote:
Originally Posted by emi__ View Post
If homosexuality is forbidden, then let's all get rid of the mussels, clams, and oysters together!

Who's with me?
"A friend of mine says that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?""

---

Getting rid of the old covenant would be better..

David wrote.. in the Psalms.. that "Moses spoke rashly".

So.. why not just do away with it.. ?

With a NEW Testament.

That seems like a good idea..:-)

I guess someone else has already thought of it though.

----

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.

When someone tries to defend homosexuality, for example, I will simply remind him or her that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other laws in Leviticus and Exodus and how to best follow them.


1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?


2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as stated in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 15:19-24). The problem is, how can I tell?

I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


4. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?


6. A friend of mine says that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?


7. Leviticus 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.


Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.


Author Unknown

-

Last edited by accelerator; 07-21-2008 at 04:51 PM..
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:29 PM
 
83 posts, read 434,917 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
I haven't read all the posts, but I want to defend my brethren in that we do not 'hate' homosexuals. The choice of how they act upon their feelings are what we object to, just as we do to any other acts that are contrary to God's will. I, personally, have at least one dear friend who is a lesbian. I do not know her private behavior, any more than I know that of most of the other people that I know and love. She is not a member of our church, but if she chose to be, she would be welcome. What she does in private is between her and God, as long as it is not bringing reproach upon the church. She doesn't go around announcing her life's choices, any more than those who may be involved in any other activity that is contrary to God's will does. It is the pride that homosexuals exhibit that is bringing so much attention towards them.
If a member of our congregation left his/her spouse, and took up with another person's spouse, they would be just as condemned as the person practicing any other form of immorality. We did not make the rules as to what is immoral, God did.
We do have divorced and remarried members. God will judge them, we don't.

My husband and I were divorced from our first spouses before we met, and before we became Christians. We both had a scriptural reason to get divorced. If we hadn't had such a reason, I don't know how we would have handled our marriage. I suppose we would have trusted God to judge us fairly.
You didn't read the post, did you? The problem with this logic is that the vast majority of Christians don't treat homosexuality like "any other sin" -- they blow it completely out of proportion and demonstrate more hatred toward gays than they do paedophiles or murderers. When was the last time you saw Christians picketing infront of prisons trying to stop convicted felons from marriage?

As far as I'm concerned, you can believe whatever you damn well please, but do yourself a favor and stop suggesting that homosexuality is a "sin". That's ridiculously ignorant and insulting; I proved that all sin is equal (your god didn't have a gradation in terms of sin severity...all sin is equal), so therefore, why not focus on yourself instead of pointing out what "sinners" others are.

The arrogance and ignorance of many Christians is astounding.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:12 PM
 
229 posts, read 347,589 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AONE View Post
This was a well thought out and delivered point. It seems if you wish to be Christian and practice your beliefs then Judge not lest ye be judge should be among those practices. If that is accomplished then we will all live in peace and we will all lead a life as a better Christian, Jew , Hindi or Muslim. or any of the thousand splinter religions and sporadic beliefs. Live and let live. Live by example not preaching, do what is right for you but don't be so arrogant as to know what is right for another. We all have much to share, if we build walls we will all lose out..
Although I do not believe or disbelieve in a God, you have mentioned something I find extremely true. Judge not lest ye be judged yourselves is constantly ignored. That is not the only verse from Jesus though. He who is without sin, cast the first stone is another constantly ignored statement of Jesus. Yet another: Remove the log from your own eye before you attempt to remove the mote from your neighbor. Some Christians are full of hypocracy. Anyone condemning others and claiming to believe in the Bible is a hypocrite and should not be given a second of attention.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Netherlands
249 posts, read 531,639 times
Reputation: 72
Default “For why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person's conscience?”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
The choice of how they act upon their feelings are what we object to, just as we do to any other acts that are contrary to God's will.
And God said:

“However, let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a busybody in other people's matters.. and to make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we ordered you;”

“For why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person's conscience?”

1Peter 4:15 +1Thessalonians 4:11 + 1Corinthians 10:29

-

That's a good question!!!

---

"For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.

This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare." - Romans2:13

-

In other words..

Self- regulation rules..

Jesus set us free.

AMEN!!!

-

Last edited by accelerator; 07-21-2008 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:21 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 8,534,309 times
Reputation: 3779
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexiana View Post
You didn't read the post, did you? The problem with this logic is that the vast majority of Christians don't treat homosexuality like "any other sin" -- they blow it completely out of proportion and demonstrate more hatred toward gays than they do paedophiles or murderers. When was the last time you saw Christians picketing infront of prisons trying to stop convicted felons from marriage?

As far as I'm concerned, you can believe whatever you damn well please, but do yourself a favor and stop suggesting that homosexuality is a "sin". That's ridiculously ignorant and insulting; I proved that all sin is equal (your god didn't have a gradation in terms of sin severity...all sin is equal), so therefore, why not focus on yourself instead of pointing out what "sinners" others are.

The arrogance and ignorance of many Christians is astounding.

Wow ! Talk about hate ! That was certainly unjustified !
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:54 PM
 
Location: England
1,168 posts, read 2,500,294 times
Reputation: 1009
I believe ALL the Bible. Homosexuality IS a sin. So is Fornication, Adultery, Stealing, Lust etc. That is why a christian is called to "Take up their cross and follow Christ", with the aim, by Gods Grace and with his help, to live a holy life.
We are all sinners and would all be going to hell if it were not for Jesus Christ - who suffered and died for the sins of those who would Repent and take up their cross and follow him. It is a daily walk, it is a lifestyle. And Homosexuality or any other sin cannot be part of the lifestyle a christian is called to.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:54 PM
 
2,027 posts, read 4,201,757 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
Wow ! Talk about hate ! That was certainly unjustified !
Not really.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:00 PM
 
2,027 posts, read 4,201,757 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
I believe ALL the Bible. Homosexuality IS a sin. So is Fornication, Adultery, Stealing, Lust etc. That is why a christian is called to "Take up their cross and follow Christ", with the aim, by Gods Grace and with his help, to live a holy life.
We are all sinners and would all be going to hell if it were not for Jesus Christ - who suffered and died for the sins of those who would Repent and take up their cross and follow him. It is a daily walk, it is a lifestyle. And Homosexuality or any other sin cannot be part of the lifestyle a christian is called to.
I'm gonna repost this since you seem to have skipped over it. This is a slightly changed version but I think the meaning is much the same.

Taken from a letter posted to Snopes.com:
Dear Dr. Laura,


Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.


I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.


a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?


e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?


f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?


g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?


h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?


i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)


I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.


Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.


Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:02 PM
 
14 posts, read 34,073 times
Reputation: 11
I view the act of Homosexuality as a sin as stated in the bible. There is also a great deal of other sins listed in the bible as well. I myself am imperfect and therefore do sin however, i try my best not to sin and if i find myself becoming weak i try to figure out what causes that and try to stay away from that so as not to be tempted.

I find it interesting that you replied that

"As far as I'm concerned, you can believe whatever you damn well please, but do yourself a favor and stop suggesting that homosexuality is a "sin". That's ridiculously ignorant and insulting; I proved that all sin is equal (your god didn't have a gradation in terms of sin severity...all sin is equal), so therefore, why not focus on yourself instead of pointing out what "sinners" others are"

That was quite hateful and his post was not ignorant and insulting since as you stated yourself it is a sin. And actually not all sin is equal since a sin against Jesus can be forgiven however sinning against the Holy spirit cannot be forgiven. I look at homosexuals in the same light as people who commit fornication, adultery etc... since it can all be viewed as sin. It would be like me viewing pornography(lust), and not only recognizing that it is a sin, which it is but then just not caring and continuing to do so, because it is my "right" to do so. However i dont because i can control those urges and choose not act on them in accord with bible teachings.

All we can do is work on ourselves and if we can, help others out by showing them through the use of scripture that what they are doing is wrong in God's eyes and they should try to work on that area. If someone saw me doing something that was wrong i would like to be told to try to work on that area so that i can improve.

Just my thoughts on the matter and in the end we are accountable for our sins to god, we just have to hope that his forgiveness knows no bounds and that we are truly repentant of our sins.(which would seem to be not doing the same act, over and over and over again)

Not to stir up any hate just my viewpoint
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